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  • Deep Creek Rock

    .._. .._ _._. _._ .._
    Just so you know they make godamn crankshafts, and connecting rods on cars using MIM. Yes MIM is cheaper & faster to make - but there are some advantages as well. It is NOT Pot metal. And even those hand made beloved custom guns - break (not brake!) Les Baer had a run of cracked hammers - but thats not possible on machined parts right? There isnt a single non custom -production gun on the market that is using some form of MIM. So unless your buying really old guns or 100 % custom - your buying some form of MIM.

    Heres a little tibit to maybe help pull your head out of your ass about MIM

    Process

    An early developer of the process during the 1970s was Dr. Raymond E. Wiech Jr., who refined MIM technology as co-founder of a California company named Parmatech; the name being condensed from the phrase 'particle materials technology'.[2][3] Dr. Wiech later patented [4] his process, and it was widely adopted for manufacturing use in the 1980s. Competing processes included pressed powder sintering, investment casting, and machining. MIM gained recognition throughout the 1990s as improvements to subsequent conditioning processes resulted in an end product that performs similar or better than those made through competing processes. MIM technology improved cost efficiency through high volume production to 'near-net-shape', negated costly, additional operations left unrealized in competing processes, and met rigid dimensional and metallurgical specifications.

    The process steps involve combining metal powders with wax and plastic binders to produce the 'feedstock' mix that is injected as a liquid into a hollow mold using plastic injection molding machines. The 'green part' is cooled and de-molded in the plastic molding machine. Next, a portion of the binder material is removed using solvent, thermal furnaces, catalytic process, or a combination of methods. The resulting, fragile and porous (2-4% "air") part, in a condition called "brown" stage, requires the metal to be condensed in a furnace process called Sintering. MIM parts are sintered at temperatures nearly high enough to melt the entire metal part outright (up to 1450 degrees Celsius), at which the metal particle surfaces bind together to result in a final, 96-99% solid density. The end-product MIM metal has comparable mechanical and physical properties with parts made using classic metalworking methods, and MIM materials are compatible with the same subsequent metal conditioning treatments such as plating, passivating, annealing, carburizing, nitriding, and precipitation hardening.

    [edit] ApplicationsThe window of economic advantage in metal injection molded parts lies in complexity and volume for small-size parts. MIM materials are comparable to metal formed by competing methods, and final products are used in a broad range of industrial, commercial, medical, dental, firearms, aerospace, and automotive applications. Dimensional tolerances of +/-.003" per linear inch can be commonly held, and far closer restrictions on tolerance are possible with expert knowledge of molding and sintering. MIM can produce parts where it is difficult, or even impossible, to efficiently manufacture an item through other means of fabrication. Increased costs for traditional manufacturing methods inherent to part complexity, such as internal/external threads, miniaturization, or brand identity marking, typically do not increase the cost in a MIM operation due to the flexibility of injection molding.

    There is a broad range of materials available when utilizing the MIM process. Traditional metalworking processes often involve a significant amount of material waste, which makes MIM a highly efficient option for the fabrication of complex components consisting of expensive/special alloys (Cobalt-chrome, 17-4 PH Stainless Steel). MIM is a viable option when extremely thin walls specifications (i.e. 0.008” thick) are required. Additionally, EMI shielding (Electromagnetic Interference) requirements has presented unique challenges, which are being successfully attained through the utilization of specialty alloys (ASTM A753 Type 4).
     

    jawn

    YOU TROLLIN!
    Feb 10, 2011
    2,884
    INTARWEB
    Just so you know they make godamn crankshafts, and connecting rods on cars using MIM. Yes MIM is cheaper & faster to make - but there are some advantages as well. It is NOT Pot metal. And even those hand made beloved custom guns - break (not brake!) Les Baer had a run of cracked hammers - but thats not possible on machined parts right? There isnt a single non custom -production gun on the market that is using some form of MIM. So unless your buying really old guns or 100 % custom - your buying some form of MIM.

    Heres a little tibit to maybe help pull your head out of your ass about MIM

    Process

    An early developer of the process during the 1970s was Dr. Raymond E. Wiech Jr., who refined MIM technology as co-founder of a California company named Parmatech; the name being condensed from the phrase 'particle materials technology'.[2][3] Dr. Wiech later patented [4] his process, and it was widely adopted for manufacturing use in the 1980s. Competing processes included pressed powder sintering, investment casting, and machining. MIM gained recognition throughout the 1990s as improvements to subsequent conditioning processes resulted in an end product that performs similar or better than those made through competing processes. MIM technology improved cost efficiency through high volume production to 'near-net-shape', negated costly, additional operations left unrealized in competing processes, and met rigid dimensional and metallurgical specifications.

    The process steps involve combining metal powders with wax and plastic binders to produce the 'feedstock' mix that is injected as a liquid into a hollow mold using plastic injection molding machines. The 'green part' is cooled and de-molded in the plastic molding machine. Next, a portion of the binder material is removed using solvent, thermal furnaces, catalytic process, or a combination of methods. The resulting, fragile and porous (2-4% "air") part, in a condition called "brown" stage, requires the metal to be condensed in a furnace process called Sintering. MIM parts are sintered at temperatures nearly high enough to melt the entire metal part outright (up to 1450 degrees Celsius), at which the metal particle surfaces bind together to result in a final, 96-99% solid density. The end-product MIM metal has comparable mechanical and physical properties with parts made using classic metalworking methods, and MIM materials are compatible with the same subsequent metal conditioning treatments such as plating, passivating, annealing, carburizing, nitriding, and precipitation hardening.

    [edit] ApplicationsThe window of economic advantage in metal injection molded parts lies in complexity and volume for small-size parts. MIM materials are comparable to metal formed by competing methods, and final products are used in a broad range of industrial, commercial, medical, dental, firearms, aerospace, and automotive applications. Dimensional tolerances of +/-.003" per linear inch can be commonly held, and far closer restrictions on tolerance are possible with expert knowledge of molding and sintering. MIM can produce parts where it is difficult, or even impossible, to efficiently manufacture an item through other means of fabrication. Increased costs for traditional manufacturing methods inherent to part complexity, such as internal/external threads, miniaturization, or brand identity marking, typically do not increase the cost in a MIM operation due to the flexibility of injection molding.

    There is a broad range of materials available when utilizing the MIM process. Traditional metalworking processes often involve a significant amount of material waste, which makes MIM a highly efficient option for the fabrication of complex components consisting of expensive/special alloys (Cobalt-chrome, 17-4 PH Stainless Steel). MIM is a viable option when extremely thin walls specifications (i.e. 0.008” thick) are required. Additionally, EMI shielding (Electromagnetic Interference) requirements has presented unique challenges, which are being successfully attained through the utilization of specialty alloys (ASTM A753 Type 4).

    It's not because it's MIM that I'm concerned. It's that the MIM parts are largely things I had intended on replacing already for functional reasons.
     

    Mt Airy

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 28, 2010
    1,444
    Frederick county
    Just so you know they make godamn crankshafts, and connecting rods on cars using MIM. Yes MIM is cheaper & faster to make - but there are some advantages as well. It is NOT Pot metal. And even those hand made beloved custom guns - break (not brake!) Les Baer had a run of cracked hammers - but thats not possible on machined parts right? There isnt a single non custom -production gun on the market that is using some form of MIM. So unless your buying really old guns or 100 % custom - your buying some form of MIM.

    Heres a little tibit to maybe help pull your head out of your ass about MIM

    Process

    An early developer of the process during the 1970s was Dr. Raymond E. Wiech Jr., who refined MIM technology as co-founder of a California company named Parmatech; the name being condensed from the phrase 'particle materials technology'.[2][3] Dr. Wiech later patented [4] his process, and it was widely adopted for manufacturing use in the 1980s. Competing processes included pressed powder sintering, investment casting, and machining. MIM gained recognition throughout the 1990s as improvements to subsequent conditioning processes resulted in an end product that performs similar or better than those made through competing processes. MIM technology improved cost efficiency through high volume production to 'near-net-shape', negated costly, additional operations left unrealized in competing processes, and met rigid dimensional and metallurgical specifications.

    The process steps involve combining metal powders with wax and plastic binders to produce the 'feedstock' mix that is injected as a liquid into a hollow mold using plastic injection molding machines. The 'green part' is cooled and de-molded in the plastic molding machine. Next, a portion of the binder material is removed using solvent, thermal furnaces, catalytic process, or a combination of methods. The resulting, fragile and porous (2-4% "air") part, in a condition called "brown" stage, requires the metal to be condensed in a furnace process called Sintering. MIM parts are sintered at temperatures nearly high enough to melt the entire metal part outright (up to 1450 degrees Celsius), at which the metal particle surfaces bind together to result in a final, 96-99% solid density. The end-product MIM metal has comparable mechanical and physical properties with parts made using classic metalworking methods, and MIM materials are compatible with the same subsequent metal conditioning treatments such as plating, passivating, annealing, carburizing, nitriding, and precipitation hardening.

    [edit] ApplicationsThe window of economic advantage in metal injection molded parts lies in complexity and volume for small-size parts. MIM materials are comparable to metal formed by competing methods, and final products are used in a broad range of industrial, commercial, medical, dental, firearms, aerospace, and automotive applications. Dimensional tolerances of +/-.003" per linear inch can be commonly held, and far closer restrictions on tolerance are possible with expert knowledge of molding and sintering. MIM can produce parts where it is difficult, or even impossible, to efficiently manufacture an item through other means of fabrication. Increased costs for traditional manufacturing methods inherent to part complexity, such as internal/external threads, miniaturization, or brand identity marking, typically do not increase the cost in a MIM operation due to the flexibility of injection molding.

    There is a broad range of materials available when utilizing the MIM process. Traditional metalworking processes often involve a significant amount of material waste, which makes MIM a highly efficient option for the fabrication of complex components consisting of expensive/special alloys (Cobalt-chrome, 17-4 PH Stainless Steel). MIM is a viable option when extremely thin walls specifications (i.e. 0.008” thick) are required. Additionally, EMI shielding (Electromagnetic Interference) requirements has presented unique challenges, which are being successfully attained through the utilization of specialty alloys (ASTM A753 Type 4).
    Are you a salesman in the metal poetry business? sound good on paper but I still won't buy it. and when I up grade pistons and connecting rods . I always buy forged and machined .
    Any way good read but I have read all that stuff before.
     
    Last edited:

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,534
    I personally would not buy a pistol that has any MIN in it (POT METAL)

    penknife-spyderco-c109slp[1].jpg
    spyderco is run by steel snobs and it's good enough for them. I'm fine with it.
     

    jawn

    YOU TROLLIN!
    Feb 10, 2011
    2,884
    INTARWEB
    Did you just replace the slide release and magazine release? The pics show different parts.

    Yup. Wilson Combat extended slide stop and an unknown extended mag release. I have short thumbs, and it allows me to operate both controls without breaking my grip nearly as drastically.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,032
    Elkton, MD
    Theres nothing wrong with MIM and theres nothing wrong with Polymer if done properly and used for the correct applications. The only downside I have with MIM is it dosent stone as cleanly as a Forged Part. Many 1911 Smiths just like to sell an unecessary bill of goods/parts.

    Nice gun. I wouldnt change a ton, heres what I would suggest:

    -Change the sights to some 10-8 Rear with a Novak Gold Bead Dovetailed Front (Classic setup with Sight Enhancements. The Front wil need a Dovetail Cut)
    -Add some VZ Frag Grips (Looks Great, Durable and Impervious to Oils)
    -EGW Grip Screws (Wont marr up like Slotted Screws will)
    -Wilson Lanyard MSH (All handguns should have a lanyard IMO, but the Wilson is Discreet)
    -Wilson or EGW Slide Stop (Extended Slide Stops suck and can cause Failure to Lock Open)
    -Wilson Smooth Recoil Assembly Cap (I think they look great on Retro 1911's)
    -Meduim Wilson Non Drilled Trigger (Factory Short Trigger can cause some consistency issues, the medium stays in the "Lines" of a Retro)
    -Trigger Job on Factory Parts (with C&S Series 80 Safety Kit/Clark Sear Spring, Wilson Main Spring)
    -Throat-Ramp-Mouth Work
    -Extractor COntouring/Tensioning
    -Cut BBL Flush with Bushing and add drastic Crown
     
    Last edited:

    mikec

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 1, 2007
    11,453
    Off I-83
    Nice gun. I wouldnt change a ton, heres what I would suggest:

    -Change the sights to some 10-8 Rear with a Novak Gold Bead Dovetailed Front (Classic setup with Sight Enhancements. The Front wil need a Dovetail Cut)

    10-8 has several different width rear sight notches. The narrowest one allows for a more precise aim, the wider one allows for a quicker sight acquisition but likely less accurate shot.

    My customized Colt has the sight configuration Chad suggested. Somewhere I have the info on what width rear we went with.

    The gold bead can be expensive, due to the cost of gold. Novak has a brass bead or a white bead as well. Chuck Rogers, who shows up here from time to time, has a very nice white bead sight that works well. Not sure how available his sights are.
     

    jawn

    YOU TROLLIN!
    Feb 10, 2011
    2,884
    INTARWEB
    Theres nothing wrong with MIM and theres nothing wrong with Polymer if done properly and used for the correct applications. The only downside I have with MIM is it dosent stone as cleanly as a Forged Part. Many 1911 Smiths just like to sell an unecessary bill of goods/parts.

    Nice gun. I wouldnt change a ton, heres what I would suggest:

    -Change the sights to some 10-8 Rear with a Novak Gold Bead Dovetailed Front (Classic setup with Sight Enhancements. The Front wil need a Dovetail Cut)
    -Add some VZ Frag Grips (Looks Great, Durable and Impervious to Oils)
    -EGW Grip Screws (Wont marr up like Slotted Screws will)
    -Wilson Lanyard MSH (All handguns should have a lanyard IMO, but the Wilson is Discreet)
    -Wilson or EGW Slide Stop (Extended Slide Stops suck and can cause Failure to Lock Open)
    -Wilson Smooth Recoil Assembly Cap (I think they look great on Retro 1911's)
    -Meduim Wilson Non Drilled Trigger (Factory Short Trigger can cause some consistency issues, the medium stays in the "Lines" of a Retro)
    -4 Wilson 7 Rounders/4 Wilson 10 Rounders (Best Mags IMO)
    -Trigger Job on Factory Parts (with C&S Series 80 Safety Kit/Clark Sear Spring, Wilson Main Spring)
    -Throat-Ramp-Mouth Work
    -Extractor COntouring/Tensioning
    -Cut BBL Flush with Bushing and add drastic Crown

    I have something similar in mind, albeit not as retro. ;)
     

    sailskidrive

    Legalize the Constitution
    Oct 16, 2011
    5,547
    Route 27
    Just so you know they make godamn crankshafts, and connecting rods on cars using MIM. Yes MIM is cheaper & faster to make - but there are some advantages as well. It is NOT Pot metal.

    Oh come on, a car's connecting rods would never under go the hard core stress as one of his 1911s trips to the range. :lol:

    Like it or not the second industrial revolution is here and it's all about refinement and automation. MIM parts are here to stay, they produce a strong and consistent product that simplifies the manufacturing process; forged hand fitted parts are not the future.

    In comparison to modern manufacturing processes 1911A1s are practically an art, like glass blowing from years past.
     

    smores

    Creepy-Ass Cracker
    Feb 27, 2007
    13,493
    Falls Church
    Oh come on, a car's connecting rods would never under go the hard core stress as one of his 1911s trips to the range. :lol:

    Like it or not the second industrial revolution is here and it's all about refinement and automation. MIM parts are here to stay, they produce a strong and consistent product that simplifies the manufacturing process; forged hand fitted parts are not the future.

    In comparison to modern manufacturing processes 1911A1s are practically an art, like glass blowing from years past.

    So I'm an artist now? :heart:

    Seriously I'm glad I went to gunsmithing school and got to learn the "old/hard way" to do a lot of things. Seeing some of the guns coming out makes me sad. They're all mass produced and something is lost in the process. It's like a custom built supercar vs. what you see on the lot at the dealership. Or when a truly good chef makes a meal or someone cooks you a homemade meal with some "extra love" in it. It's just different.

    I like my Glocks and H&Ks but I will always respect the 1911 and guns of that era. John Browning was truly an amazing man to have invented all those weapons.
     

    jawn

    YOU TROLLIN!
    Feb 10, 2011
    2,884
    INTARWEB
    Took it out to the range today. Ran 150 rounds of ammo through it, and was surprised at its accuracy. Had a few minor feeding issues with the factory mags, but nothing too out of the ordinary.

    And as you can see, it's not really all that much like how it came from the factory.
     

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    smores

    Creepy-Ass Cracker
    Feb 27, 2007
    13,493
    Falls Church
    Wilsons or CMCs bro.. come on! lol.

    We'll get it running like a sewing machine here... I've been shooting my Commander the last few range trips I've been on. And then there's the G21SF RTF2s............... :drool:

    must... build... reloading bench...
     

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