I set up my shotgun practice area to replicate the my house, specifically the sleeping quarter/likely 'bad guy path' interface. With a cylinder choke on the bird shot side and a laser, you might be surprised how easy it is to land pellets on the face/neck portion of an 11x20 silhouette gong even when out of breath and rushing the course in different scenarios. The follow-up tap to the body with a laser-equipped DP12 is far easier than with conventional shotties. I've also seen first hand what 00 does to steel lathe and plaster walls. In the ranges I'd be dealing with, bird shot first makes sense on the first shot. I wouldn't use slugs. YMMV
#8 and #4 shot for HD is it worth it?
- Thread starter Qbeam
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Federal flight control 00. But Federal LE low recoil slugs are on the stock too. For grizzly, jic (lol).
(and more seriously, I prefer a full-sized 9mm semiautomatic pistol, penetration risks and all, as my first HD option given room layouts, personal proficiency/practice, and the desire to have a free hand with kids in the mix)
(and more seriously, I prefer a full-sized 9mm semiautomatic pistol, penetration risks and all, as my first HD option given room layouts, personal proficiency/practice, and the desire to have a free hand with kids in the mix)
I practice most with an AR. My HD gun is almost everything people say it shouldn’t be. A home-built 10.5” AR in 5.56. Geissele B-GRF trigger. Suppressed. Red dot. Fenix PD-35 light. 40 round mags with Ballistic tip ammo. I can justify each and every decision that went into that rifle. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion. There is no one correct answer.
Not that one. LOL.
Needs a bayonet.
Good advice. Ordering now.
Pale Ryder
Ultimate Member
If all I got is #8 or 7 1/2, I'm going cut shell.
Ranchero50
Ultimate Member
AT spitting range I don't think ammo type is going to matter too much. I think the flash boom, shock and awe will scare a perp into another direction.
I'm more concerned about where the round is going once it's out of the barrel. From my bed, area a certain amount of sweep will put rounds in my oldest kids room (through two walls). Then I have a sweet spot by the door before I risk taking out the plumbing in the bathroom or sweeping the younger kids room. Of course there's light wiring next to the door to try and avoid. My exterior walls are 10" of brick so no worries there.
I'm more concerned about where the round is going once it's out of the barrel. From my bed, area a certain amount of sweep will put rounds in my oldest kids room (through two walls). Then I have a sweet spot by the door before I risk taking out the plumbing in the bathroom or sweeping the younger kids room. Of course there's light wiring next to the door to try and avoid. My exterior walls are 10" of brick so no worries there.
Penetration studies are interesting, and often not what people expect.
That's always good to write on an open forum.....
DutchV
Ultimate Member
- Jul 8, 2012
- 4,726
I'm not going to use anything smaller than the Federal #4 Tactical loads.
Once I learned to push forward with my left hand, recoil became much less of an issue. Even 12ga slugs aren't all that bad.
Once I learned to push forward with my left hand, recoil became much less of an issue. Even 12ga slugs aren't all that bad.
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,170
Short answer - NO .
For more data input , TNOutdoor9 has done testing with wide variety of shotgun loads, using his consistent testing methodology .
I am from being obsessed with deep penetration , but even I know that 2 inches is just deluding yourself. In the creative hypocrisy department , any vaguely strait faced discussion of " But what about shot sizes larger than 7.5 ? " would have to start with lead BB . ( Not in the generic vernacular context, but specifically lead pellets of .180 dia ) Still wouldn't be my recommendation , but with +/- 6in of penetration , it could be argued as being in same neighborhood as some pre-fragmented handgun rounds .
" But for Close Range ...." . Sure, but in this context , close range would need to mean Contact . Yes, if the muzzle is pressed directly against the body , the effect of the high pressure gasses directly into the wound channel creates much damage by itself, and increases the penetration of the shot . But taking only contact shots is not a viable Plan A .
You options should start with Buckshot . I know highly experienced people who swear by All Slugs, All the Time , and I can't dispute their real world results .
For more data input , TNOutdoor9 has done testing with wide variety of shotgun loads, using his consistent testing methodology .
I am from being obsessed with deep penetration , but even I know that 2 inches is just deluding yourself. In the creative hypocrisy department , any vaguely strait faced discussion of " But what about shot sizes larger than 7.5 ? " would have to start with lead BB . ( Not in the generic vernacular context, but specifically lead pellets of .180 dia ) Still wouldn't be my recommendation , but with +/- 6in of penetration , it could be argued as being in same neighborhood as some pre-fragmented handgun rounds .
" But for Close Range ...." . Sure, but in this context , close range would need to mean Contact . Yes, if the muzzle is pressed directly against the body , the effect of the high pressure gasses directly into the wound channel creates much damage by itself, and increases the penetration of the shot . But taking only contact shots is not a viable Plan A .
You options should start with Buckshot . I know highly experienced people who swear by All Slugs, All the Time , and I can't dispute their real world results .
What’s the argument against this set up? Not trolling
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,170
I'm not the Doc , but most likely referring to :
1. Use of NFA item
2. Use of self built lower reciever
3. Use of aftermarket trigger assy .
Amazingly he does not report simultaneously using Handloads ( humor used in this sentence ).
Inserting my observations and commentary , I would rank the ( areas of potential concern ) in that order .
1. Use of NFA item
2. Use of self built lower reciever
3. Use of aftermarket trigger assy .
Amazingly he does not report simultaneously using Handloads ( humor used in this sentence ).
Inserting my observations and commentary , I would rank the ( areas of potential concern ) in that order .
Sirex
Powered by natural gas
I load shells with dimes, so I can tell the police the intruder demanded my money.
I also have some dragon's breath shells in my speed feed stock for spiders.
I also have some dragon's breath shells in my speed feed stock for spiders.
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,170
Ask Gary Fadden about using NFA for otherwise blatently justifiable SD .
Don't care. It's the best tool for the job, IMO. No holds barred when it comes to defending my family. I'll worry about the rest if I ever need to. Like I said, I have a logical explanation for every component I use.
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