Go Back   Maryland Shooters > The Arsenal > Optics
Don't Have An Account? Register Here

Join MD Shooters

View Poll Results: Which you prefer:
Red Dot/Holographic with Magnifier 2 9.52%
Low Power Variable Optic (LPVO) 19 90.48%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 16th, 2018, 01:27 PM #11
Qbeam's Avatar
Qbeam Qbeam is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,840
Qbeam Qbeam is offline
Senior Member
Qbeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,840
The magnifier gives you the versatility to swap between red dots on different platforms without having to re-zero the sights. So many variables (no pun intended) to run through.




Q
Qbeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2018, 03:33 PM #12
alucard0822's Avatar
alucard0822 alucard0822 is offline
For great Justice
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 13,749
Images: 11
alucard0822 alucard0822 is offline
For great Justice
alucard0822's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 13,749
Images: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by erwos View Post
I don't disagree per se, but, for me, the platform determines the choice. BDC is great if you're not doing PRS for tiny groups; I run FFP/fixed BDC scopes all over the place and use a ballistics calculator to figure out my drop map ahead of time. For me, speed and ranging is more important than pinpoint precision.

But there are a lot of platforms - < 10.5" SBRs, pistol cals, and big bores coming to mind - where BDC does not map well, and getting much beyond 200yds is more like mortar fire than direct-fire. For stuff like that, I'd rather be able to mostly stay in reflex mode and be super-fast with the option of using that magnifier for the less-common longer shot. 3x is plenty of magnification for the realistic distances on those platforms. That's not a common way of looking at magnifier usage (most people want to use their expensive magnifier all the time), but it's the model that seems to make the most sense.
I much prefer mil-dots, or something like hash marks spaced evenly some number of MOA as opposed to a fixed scale intended for some load out of some rifle I probably have no intention of shooting. With pistols/SBRs, I like the large quick field of view a RDS offers, and generally don't shoot my little stuff past 200 yards, so less bulk/weight is preffered, I would rather take a little more time on the rare 300+ yard shot with an AR pistol than deal with a magnifier the 99% of the time I am shooting much closer. Personally I find, at least with my flip-to-side magnifiers, they are a lot more awkward and bulky in either position than a slim 30mm tube, so on ANY rifle I want to shoot over 200 yards, or if small groups matter, it gets a variable power. One thing I do wish the market would bring is minimalist low power variables. Instead of cramming ever higher magnification spread in the same 12" long 16+oz optics, I would love a short little < 10oz 1-3 or 1-4, kinda like the old scout rifle concept using a small pistol scope, but with conventional eye relief.
__________________
"Unfortunately, freedom allows sh*theads to get away with stuff. You always know the mark of a coward. A coward hides behind freedom. A brave person stands in front of freedom and defends it for others."
-Henry Rollins
alucard0822 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2018, 05:09 PM #13
Biggfoot44 Biggfoot44 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 16,932
Biggfoot44 Biggfoot44 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 16,932
Sigh . No option for irons .
Biggfoot44 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2018, 05:39 PM #14
Magnumite Magnumite is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Harford County, Maryland
Posts: 4,429
Magnumite Magnumite is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Harford County, Maryland
Posts: 4,429
Love irons. I use them for longer distance on a carbine equipped red dot. More precise but keeping the shooting glasses prescription up to date is a necessity. I do have one older red dot with the best dot I have seen. I can use the top and bottom of the dot to make more precise shots at different ranges since the dot sight keeps everything on one focal plane. That is usually good out to 100 yards with that particular sight.

I go with the intended use of the arm. For carbine I tried a lpvo and found it too busy on a practical accuracy application reflexive arm, even with an illuminated dot. I didn't care for the weight and bulk, neither. I don't try to make a precision rifle out of it no matter how good it shoots. For a precision AR-15 I go with a standard scope, removable mount, with pop up irons for backup. I am not a big magnification fan, just enough magnification. For the scope I prefer mil dot, hashes second, but will use the BDC type though I shoot it to determine actual impact at different ranges. I do not consider myself a long range rifle shooter, for what that is worth, just my experience shooting to distances of 200 meters.
__________________
There are 1911 pistols and Ruger revolvers. Then there are the others..

Last edited by Magnumite; October 19th, 2018 at 05:48 AM.
Magnumite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2018, 06:19 PM #15
Indiana Jones's Avatar
Indiana Jones Indiana Jones is offline
Wolverine
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Free America
Posts: 18,934
Indiana Jones Indiana Jones is offline
Wolverine
Indiana Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Free America
Posts: 18,934
150% a personal preference thing. Working in optics, I will say magnifiers are becoming less and less popular in favor or the variable low powers. I do still love mine however. It is on my wife's AR behind my Eotech 512.
__________________
"The cosmos is all that is or ever was or ever will be. Our feeblest contemplations of the Cosmos stir us—there is a tingling in the spine, a catch in the voice, a faint sensation, as if a distant memory, or falling from a height. We know we are approaching the greatest of mysteries."

— Carl Sagan
Indiana Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2018, 08:13 AM #16
erwos's Avatar
erwos erwos is offline
Jew with a Gun
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 9,658
erwos erwos is offline
Jew with a Gun
erwos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 9,658
Again, preference often depends on purpose.

If you're just shooting from a bench at a static target and you have all the in the world, yeah, you can get a lot of mileage out of a good set of irons out to ~200m. But... if you're under time pressure and/or your target is moving, they're not even remotely as good as a reflex sight. I won't even get into the level of training and practice required to use irons effectively vs a reflex sight. This is the same semi-misguided reason a lot of people hate on BDC scopes; their metric for a good reticle is how well it does shooting tiny groups from a bench with no (or a very forgiving) timer. If your metric is "hit somewhere on a large-ish target fast", BDCs are the way to go (provided you figure out your dope, which you'd have to do on a mil-mil anyways).
__________________
Things I love: bullpups, mag-fed shotguns, Glocks-not-made-by-Glock, .458 SOCOM, giving my opinion
Things I hate: .40S&W, KeyMod, AR pistols with buffer tubes, anything with an arm brace, fad-of-the-day long-range calibers
erwos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2018, 01:56 PM #17
fbi_surveillance_van fbi_surveillance_van is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 606
fbi_surveillance_van fbi_surveillance_van is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 606
I like low power variable optics better than red dots with magnifiers. I think red dots with magnifiers are a tad awkward, but they are usable. I think eotechs and other holosights work better with magnifiers than red dots.
fbi_surveillance_van is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2018, 02:04 PM #18
smokey0118's Avatar
smokey0118 smokey0118 is offline
2A TEACHER
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 22,405
Images: 33
smokey0118 smokey0118 is offline
2A TEACHER
smokey0118's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 22,405
Images: 33
LPVO + canted MRDO for the win.
__________________
MSI EXECUTIVE MEMBER:

"It's hard not to be a menace to society, when half the population is happy on their knees"

Is minic a gheibhean beal oscailt diog dunta!
smokey0118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2018, 04:30 PM #19
alucard0822's Avatar
alucard0822 alucard0822 is offline
For great Justice
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 13,749
Images: 11
alucard0822 alucard0822 is offline
For great Justice
alucard0822's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 13,749
Images: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbi_surveillance_van View Post
I like low power variable optics better than red dots with magnifiers. I think red dots with magnifiers are a tad awkward, but they are usable. I think eotechs and other holosights work better with magnifiers than red dots.
One big benefit of Holographic sights is the center dot stays small under magnification, and starts out smaller, so it's easier to shoot at longer ranges than a dot that will appear to get bigger under magnification, the glass also doesn't need coatings to reflect a certain wavelength LED like a RDS, so the color isn't changed, and they allow more light through, and tend to look better to those like myself with crappy vision. I do use my Eotech magnifier on occasion to sight in dot sights a bit more precise, but usually pull it right off afterwards. It's the old flip to side with latch, so it's relatively huge, especially with a full size dot sight. If Aimpoints weren't tougher, reliable, and able to stay on for years, I would run an EoTech on everything that doesn't need magnification.
__________________
"Unfortunately, freedom allows sh*theads to get away with stuff. You always know the mark of a coward. A coward hides behind freedom. A brave person stands in front of freedom and defends it for others."
-Henry Rollins
alucard0822 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2018, 04:30 PM #20
Magnumite Magnumite is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Harford County, Maryland
Posts: 4,429
Magnumite Magnumite is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Harford County, Maryland
Posts: 4,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by erwos View Post
Again, preference often depends on purpose.

If you're just shooting from a bench at a static target and you have all the in the world, yeah, you can get a lot of mileage out of a good set of irons out to ~200m. But... if you're under time pressure and/or your target is moving, they're not even remotely as good as a reflex sight. I won't even get into the level of training and practice required to use irons effectively vs a reflex sight. This is the same semi-misguided reason a lot of people hate on BDC scopes; their metric for a good reticle is how well it does shooting tiny groups from a bench with no (or a very forgiving) timer. If your metric is "hit somewhere on a large-ish target fast", BDCs are the way to go (provided you figure out your dope, which you'd have to do on a mil-mil anyways).
That is under timed pressure, knowing the setting and the drop...and with LMT type adjustable rear sights set to the appropriate range it is even better. I have never gotten along well with red sights, in a dot or the old red/orange front on handguns. Just don't see those clearly. Plus I just like irons. Close in, the dot is faster, can't debate that.
__________________
There are 1911 pistols and Ruger revolvers. Then there are the others..
Magnumite is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Home Page > Forum List > The Arsenal > Optics


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2018, Congregate Media, LP Privacy Policy Terms of Service