.260 Remington (bolt-action), tips/advice?
- Thread starter BradMacc82
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Broncolou
Active Member
- Aug 17, 2011
- 26,177
Finally encountered brass with the 'dreaded donut', so it looks like I'll be turning the necks on all my necked up/down brass from now on.
Broncolou
Active Member
Have any of your cases been annealed after made from 308? Does this happen during a neck resize?
- Aug 17, 2011
- 26,177
The 'donut' happens when you neck up .243 to .260, as part of the .243's shoulder gets turned into the neck of the .260 - the shoulder being thicker than the neck..., voila, dreaded donut.
I hadn't really noticed it before since I figured the slightly sticky cases were due to the brass becoming work-hardened. While annealing did help, it didn't completely resolve the issue. Until I turned the necks.
With .308 and 7mm-08 cases, you don't turn part of the shoulder into the neck when you neck them down, but the neck thickness does need to be turned down some for proper neck expansion - and if you don't turn the necks, that will give you false indicators of higher pressure when you don't really have pressure issues (sticky bolt, sticky cases, ejector swipe, etc.).
A simple test to see if your neck thickness is good to go - take a piece of your fired brass and a loose bullet, if it falls into the case mouth with little to no effort, you're in ok shape. If the bullet DOESN'T fall into the case mouth, then your neck is too thick and they need to be reamed or turned.
Always learning something new...
Broncolou
Active Member
I haven't made any brass. I bought all new Lapua for mine. Buy once cry once.
I imagine you can turn the donut out with the proper tools? Or do you just trash the case?
I really like the 3 gun stuff I do but every time I play with my 260 I get the hankerin to try some F-class shooting or something like it.....
I imagine you can turn the donut out with the proper tools? Or do you just trash the case?
I really like the 3 gun stuff I do but every time I play with my 260 I get the hankerin to try some F-class shooting or something like it.....
- Aug 17, 2011
- 26,177
If I had the funds available when I built mine, Lapua would've been THE way to go for brass. But it wasn't, so I had to get creative.
You can ream and/or turn the neck to deal with the donut, or just say fvck it and buy dedicated .260 brass and trash the donut brass.
Since I still can't justify spending $1+ a piece of brass, I'm turning necks.
You can ream and/or turn the neck to deal with the donut, or just say fvck it and buy dedicated .260 brass and trash the donut brass.
Since I still can't justify spending $1+ a piece of brass, I'm turning necks.
IndispensableDestiny
Ultimate Member
The lighter Nosler ballistic tips fragment much more than the heavier ones. I use a .308 165 grain pill and it holds together well enough for close in shots. A 125 grain .308 BT (.300 Blackout load), comes apart.
Try the Nosler Accubond. It flies the same as the BT. I use the exact same load for both and they pattern identically.
- Aug 17, 2011
- 26,177
Well, finally had to order more 142gr SMK's. Exhausted the last of the Nosler 142gr ABLR's. They shot very well, but the hit/miss availability, and price has pushed me back to the SMK's - which perform quite well in my rifle as well.
At least I still have plenty of H4350 on hand.
Back to processing brass. Found another batch that I hadn't finished prepping yet.
At least I still have plenty of H4350 on hand.
Back to processing brass. Found another batch that I hadn't finished prepping yet.
Broncolou
Active Member
Have you tried the 140 amax's? I got them down to just under 3/4 moa @ 200 repeatable but I'm having trouble getting them any tighter. I'm not sure if it's me or I need to work on the load a little more.. Not sure which 140ish gr bullet I'll try next. The nos;er 123 CC's over varget are my go to but Once I'm out(350ish left) I think I'm gonna find a 130-140 gr bullet and try to stick with it......
- Aug 17, 2011
- 26,177
I had excellent results with the Hornady 140gr Match and H414, typically under .75" when I did my part (the trade-off was the large swing in SD/ED's). Sometimes better, sometimes worse - but I attribute that more to shooter than rifle or load.
Only reason I went to the 142's was the slightly better BC and the data(s) suggested I could drive them a bit faster, if needed.
With the weather warming up, it's time to get back behind the rifle.
Only reason I went to the 142's was the slightly better BC and the data(s) suggested I could drive them a bit faster, if needed.
With the weather warming up, it's time to get back behind the rifle.
Last edited:
- Aug 17, 2011
- 26,177
Loaded up some more 142gr SMK's, 43.1gr H4350, CCI #31, 2.810" COL.
Should be a good day at DSC. This loading has always performed well in the past, so I'm expecting a pleasant day at the range.
Should be a good day at DSC. This loading has always performed well in the past, so I'm expecting a pleasant day at the range.
- Aug 17, 2011
- 26,177
Yep, this batch didn't disappoint.
Needed 1 mil for POA/POI at 300 yards, 2.1 mils elevation and .3 mils windage for POA/POI at 500 yards. Winds were minimal and at the face, so not much to contend with.
The batch at 43.3gr H4350 ran identically. I think I can finally say - this is THE load for my rifle.
Needed 1 mil for POA/POI at 300 yards, 2.1 mils elevation and .3 mils windage for POA/POI at 500 yards. Winds were minimal and at the face, so not much to contend with.
The batch at 43.3gr H4350 ran identically. I think I can finally say - this is THE load for my rifle.
- Aug 17, 2011
- 26,177
Because I'm an idiot, and inquisitive by nature, I just had to try a little experiment last Sunday. Made up 5 small batches (5 to 10 rounds per) to try out. Had a chrony to get the velocities, but with a 30-45mph wind, it never got set-up.
Batch 1 - 10 rounds at 43.3gr H4350, 142gr SMK, #34 primer, COL of 2.810"
Batch 2 - 10 rounds at 43.5gr H4350, everything else as listed from batch 1.
Batch 3 - 5 rounds at 43.8gr H4350, identical to batch 1.
Batch 4 - 5 rounds at 44gr H4350, identical to batch 1.
Batch 5 - 5 rounds at 44.3gr H4350, identical to batch 1 (listed max was 44.5gr H4350).
As I've come to expect, Batch 1 shot the way I've always counted on it shooting. Batch 2 was identical, which wasn't a surprise to me. Batch 3, surprised me some - at 100 yards, I had 3 nearly in the same hole, given the high winds, I was quite pleased. *I may do further "testing" at that charge weight at a later date. All batches were shot in a 'Round Robin' style on a box development target from accurate shooter.
I'm still trying to adapt to the chassis, and haven't ruled out sending the B&C A5 stock out for bottom-metal and going back to that since I'm more comfortable with it. I have to admit, the chassis is nice for being able to go mag-fed, but I do prefer the ergonomics of the A5 overall.
All the way up to Batch 4, I had encountered no pressure signs, but at 44gr I did notice the shots were starting to scatter some (believe I finally found a 'scatter node'?). Batch 5, primers were starting to flatten out and flow back, with a little bit more effort to unlock the bolt than I've become accustomed to, so I didn't fire more than 3 rounds out of the 5 I'd made at that charge weight.
Batch 1 - 10 rounds at 43.3gr H4350, 142gr SMK, #34 primer, COL of 2.810"
Batch 2 - 10 rounds at 43.5gr H4350, everything else as listed from batch 1.
Batch 3 - 5 rounds at 43.8gr H4350, identical to batch 1.
Batch 4 - 5 rounds at 44gr H4350, identical to batch 1.
Batch 5 - 5 rounds at 44.3gr H4350, identical to batch 1 (listed max was 44.5gr H4350).
As I've come to expect, Batch 1 shot the way I've always counted on it shooting. Batch 2 was identical, which wasn't a surprise to me. Batch 3, surprised me some - at 100 yards, I had 3 nearly in the same hole, given the high winds, I was quite pleased. *I may do further "testing" at that charge weight at a later date. All batches were shot in a 'Round Robin' style on a box development target from accurate shooter.
I'm still trying to adapt to the chassis, and haven't ruled out sending the B&C A5 stock out for bottom-metal and going back to that since I'm more comfortable with it. I have to admit, the chassis is nice for being able to go mag-fed, but I do prefer the ergonomics of the A5 overall.
All the way up to Batch 4, I had encountered no pressure signs, but at 44gr I did notice the shots were starting to scatter some (believe I finally found a 'scatter node'?). Batch 5, primers were starting to flatten out and flow back, with a little bit more effort to unlock the bolt than I've become accustomed to, so I didn't fire more than 3 rounds out of the 5 I'd made at that charge weight.
- Aug 17, 2011
- 26,177
Did a little velocity verification yesterday. Have to say, I thought my velocity was going to be higher than what the Magneto-speed was reporting - but it was consistent, so I guess I just had high expectations?
142gr SMK, 43.6gr H4350, 2.815" COL. Primers, varied between CCI 200 and CC #34's. 26" barrel. Temp in the upper 50's.
The CCI 200 batch, fired 2 strings of 10 rounds. Numbers were significant in the swings from high to low, so the ES and SD were also significant. Had 1 round that cracked 2930fps (primer looked good, but bolt lift had some effort), lowest was 2790fps, the rest seemed to hover the in the low/mid 2800fps range. Had me scratching my head initially, but I think I have that one nailed down - mixed brass batches. PPU .243 converted, some converted Nato brass, and converted commercial .308 brass.
The CCI #34 batches were much more consistent. Velocity was in the low 2800fps range, and the batch that used the same head-stamp of brass returned my best ES/SD's so far. ES was 13fps, SD was 5fps over 10 rounds, AVG of 2813fps.
Was hoping to be closer to 2860-2890fps with the 142's, but I'm starting to think I may have been a bit optimistic. Haven't shot the rifle in months, so even though I shot like crap, and didn't write down all the data I'd wanted to get - it was still a good day to just be behind the rifle.
142gr SMK, 43.6gr H4350, 2.815" COL. Primers, varied between CCI 200 and CC #34's. 26" barrel. Temp in the upper 50's.
The CCI 200 batch, fired 2 strings of 10 rounds. Numbers were significant in the swings from high to low, so the ES and SD were also significant. Had 1 round that cracked 2930fps (primer looked good, but bolt lift had some effort), lowest was 2790fps, the rest seemed to hover the in the low/mid 2800fps range. Had me scratching my head initially, but I think I have that one nailed down - mixed brass batches. PPU .243 converted, some converted Nato brass, and converted commercial .308 brass.
The CCI #34 batches were much more consistent. Velocity was in the low 2800fps range, and the batch that used the same head-stamp of brass returned my best ES/SD's so far. ES was 13fps, SD was 5fps over 10 rounds, AVG of 2813fps.
Was hoping to be closer to 2860-2890fps with the 142's, but I'm starting to think I may have been a bit optimistic. Haven't shot the rifle in months, so even though I shot like crap, and didn't write down all the data I'd wanted to get - it was still a good day to just be behind the rifle.
E.Shell
Ultimate Member
You're doing OK if you're breaking 2810 with 5 fps SD.
The mixed brass thing is to be expected and I'd personally want to set aside everything but one single brand/year/lot, as you had for your last load.
That thing is probably almost worn out by now, LOL, ever go shoot something with it?
- Aug 17, 2011
- 26,177
I'm going to 'thin the herd' of brass and stick with 1 head-stamp from now on. Just need to decide if it's going to be Lapua, Nosler, or even Federal nickel - I'll run a batch of each to determine a favorite.
I did a few mid-range F-class shoots with it, and while I still got smoked by guys with equipment costing many times what I have into the rifle, I think I at least did OK. Steady 580/590 out of 600. Few X-rings, but could be improved upon.
Should still have a little life left in it, haven't been too hard on it over the past 18 months. Ashamed to admit it, but have yet to break my 1k yard cherry - know the rifle can do it, just haven't had the opportunity to do it.
E.Shell
Ultimate Member
PM incoming...
- Aug 17, 2011
- 26,177
Turns out my velocities are actually more in line with my prior expectations, I had the wrong spacer on the magneto-speed last time out - turns out that affected the results. (I am indeed a dumb-ass.)
Have to say I'm a little surprised that the Lake City/CCI 200 batch returned my best (lowest SD/ES) numbers, I honestly wasn't expecting that. (The listed ES/SD for the Nosler/#34 batch may be incorrect, noticed after I got home.)
It seems my rifle is a 'cheap date', but every batch shot nearly identical, and was more than enough accurate/consistent to ring a 2" steel paddle on the 500 yard line with repetition.
**And I am officially back into the A5 stock, the chassis is a great piece of gear - and I adore being able to go mag fed, but it isn't for what I'm trying to do with the rifle.
So, if anyone may be interested in a complete XLR Element with 1 10rnd AICS mag for the Savage short-action (top-side bolt release), I have a very clean one available.
Have to say I'm a little surprised that the Lake City/CCI 200 batch returned my best (lowest SD/ES) numbers, I honestly wasn't expecting that. (The listed ES/SD for the Nosler/#34 batch may be incorrect, noticed after I got home.)
It seems my rifle is a 'cheap date', but every batch shot nearly identical, and was more than enough accurate/consistent to ring a 2" steel paddle on the 500 yard line with repetition.
**And I am officially back into the A5 stock, the chassis is a great piece of gear - and I adore being able to go mag fed, but it isn't for what I'm trying to do with the rifle.
So, if anyone may be interested in a complete XLR Element with 1 10rnd AICS mag for the Savage short-action (top-side bolt release), I have a very clean one available.
Nary a thing wrong with those Nosler ES and SD numbers as listed. 8.4255, if you wanna get horsey.
Sweet!
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