MoCo Anti-gun Ralley

Ranchero50 · Dec 24, 2015

Mark75H said:
Where? MSI?

Ditto...

Thinking a card with this could work:

We Are Citizens Against Gun Violence Too
The only thing stopping a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun

MARYLAND SHALL ISSUE
Don't Become A Victim of Gun Violence

Maybe?

BeoBill · Dec 24, 2015

Ranchero50 said:
Ditto...

Thinking a card with this could work:

We Are Citizens Against Gun Violence Too
The only thing stopping a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun

MARYLAND SHALL ISSUE
Don't Become A Victim of Gun Violence

Maybe?

Good, but I'd lose the first tag line (The only thing...). It's been discredited by the antis for years. It's shopworn and ineffective.

Leaving the space blank emphasizes the second tag line and could be a conversation starter.

gamer_jim · Dec 24, 2015

I wonder if we should be a bit more ambiguous and leave it at something like:

Citizens against ALL violence!

kinda like the BLM group, where all lives matter....

no?

BeoBill · Dec 24, 2015

gamer_jim said:
I wonder if we should be a bit more ambiguous and leave it at something like:

Citizens against ALL violence!

kinda like the BLM group, where all lives matter....

no?

Why even bother with a shirt then? We're looking to establish:

A common purpose
Curiosity.

lseries · Dec 24, 2015

Rack&Roll said:
Considering Jewish history, it's so puzzling how the Jewish community puts its head in the sand about modern day threats to their lives.

There are four groups of people I think should not only oppose gun control but embrace gun ownership passionately: Blacks, gays, Jews, and women.

I know pro-gun people only in the first and last categories. And believe me, I know a LOT of gays and Jews. (I know there are many gays and Jews who are pro-RKBA. Some of the latter have posted in this thread. Some of the former may have, too, for all I know. However, I have never actually met any of these individuals.)

I have told Jews that Kristallnacht immediately followed Hitler's disarming of the Jews. I have said that even leaving aside the Shoah (which one cannot, of course!) the 20th century wasn't a good one for Jews, and that the 19th was nothing to write home about, either.

I have mentioned Matthew Shepard (sp?) to gays. I have suggested that things may have turned out quite differently had he been armed. I have said that had it been known that he was armed he may not have been targeted.

In all cases the response has been, more or less, "Yes, but..."

Without exception the folks I've had these discussions with are extremely intelligent, easily capable of understanding these points. (I know people who lack the hardware upstairs to grasp this sort of thing, and I do cut them some slack.)

So I just don't know. It's a real mystery to me.

I wish I knew how to reach these two groups. I think it's important for "our" cause, but more significantly because gays and Jews are often the targets of aggression, which they might be able to fend off were they armed.

JMintzer · Dec 24, 2015

Bob A said:
I'm a little distressed to read this.

If Jews are "white men" so are Arabs. They are all Semitic. This isn't a racial issue.

The British were there because the Ottoman Turks fought on the side of Germany in WWI, and they lost. The Jews hold the land because they fought for it, and continue to do so. This has been accepted as fair ever since the invention of the stone axe. Get over it.

If it weren't for the two atomic bombs, many of out fathers and grandfathers would not have survived to reproduce. It's not my call to determine whether that's a good thing, but of course I have a personal viewpoint about it.

This conflict is older than a century, and has gone on, and off, and on again for some 1500 years.

Not to mention that Jews have lived there for millennia...

Hell, just the other week, they found another relic in Jerusalem, dating back to King David...

BeoBill · Dec 24, 2015

JMintzer said:
Not to mention that Jews have lived there for millennia...

Hell, just the other week, they found another relic in Jerusalem, dating back to King David...

I saw that. Exciting! More physical validation of the Bible!

Brooklyn · Dec 25, 2015

lseries said:
There are four groups of people I think should not only oppose gun control but embrace gun ownership passionately: Blacks, gays, Jews, and women.

I know pro-gun people only in the first and last categories. And believe me, I know a LOT of gays and Jews. (I know there are many gays and Jews who are pro-RKBA. Some of the latter have posted in this thread. Some of the former may have, too, for all I know. However, I have never actually met any of these individuals.)

I have told Jews that Kristallnacht immediately followed Hitler's disarming of the Jews. I have said that even leaving aside the Shoah (which one cannot, of course!) the 20th century wasn't a good one for Jews, and that the 19th was nothing to write home about, either.

I have mentioned Matthew Shepard (sp?) to gays. I have suggested that things may have turned out quite differently had he been armed. I have said that had it been known that he was armed he may not have been targeted.

In all cases the response has been, more or less, "Yes, but..."

Without exception the folks I've had these discussions with are extremely intelligent, easily capable of understanding these points. (I know people who lack the hardware upstairs to grasp this sort of thing, and I do cut them some slack.)

So I just don't know. It's a real mystery to me.

I wish I knew how to reach these two groups. I think it's important for "our" cause, but more significantly because gays and Jews are often the targets of aggression, which they might be able to fend off were they armed.

Denial.

Stop wasting time on Jewish organizations.. its the 5th column Jews that have abandoned these idiots that you want..

They can be found.. but you cant push them or reach them... when they clue in or get scared enough they will find you.

Just be receptive.....

Magnumst · Dec 25, 2015

Mr H said:
The thread is up... go ahead and pop this in over there. Thanks.

I'm not going to search all over the site for this stuff.

Haven't found it?

ar154u · Dec 25, 2015

I look at anti's as weak individuals who would rather someone else do any type of heavy lifting for them. When they hear, " The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun " they often picture the good guy doing the stopping is a police officer. These people are so used to others doing things for them that they can't imagine a cop not being there for them when they need cop. These same people would be happy paying fees for the " thought " of police protection. They still wouldn't get it if the entire police force in their area came to their house and each cop told them, hey we can't be everywhere at once. I'm not an anti, but I know how they " think " I just haven't found the antidote for their illogical thinking...yet.

lseries · Dec 26, 2015

Brooklyn said:
Stop wasting time on Jewish organizations

I've been talking only to individual Jews and gays, not to organizations in either case. You're probably right about denial. If the people weren't otherwise so intelligent I'd think it was stupidity.

I've told anti-gun Jews in so many words that if they are anti-gun they should never utter the words "Never again." IMNSHO, anti-gun Jews are God's chosen people and anybody's chosen victim.

I haven't come up with anything that catchy for gays yet.

Mr. Ed · Dec 26, 2015

lseries said:
I've been talking only to individual Jews and gays, not to organizations in either case. You're probably right about denial. If the people weren't otherwise so intelligent I'd think it was stupidity.

I've told anti-gun Jews in so many words that if they are anti-gun they should never utter the words "Never again." IMNSHO, anti-gun Jews are God's chosen people and anybody's chosen victim.

I haven't come up with anything that catchy for gays yet.

Sadly, I don't think you will for city gay folks. I've known a few, and besides being off-the-charts liberal, they weren't interested in firearms. As for carrying for self defense, I think it's a non-starter, at least in cities. Country folks are probably already armed.

I can't say for sure, but I think that most city incidents of anti gay violence seem to happen in the areas of clubs, bars, restaurants and in gay enclaves while folks are out and about. Not places where anybody could or maybe even should be carrying. Alcohol, dancing and CC just don't mix well. Very few hate related incidents seem to happen in their homes/apartments. Matthew Shepard (your example) seems to have been initiated in a bar and alcohol was involved. I hope that doesn't come off as stereotyping, but those are the sentiments I encountered when I brought the subject up.

And while it's a noble idea, I think that the gay community is a dog that just won't hunt in the 2A support arena. Just my .02

Brooklyn · Dec 26, 2015

lseries said:
I've been talking only to individual Jews and gays, not to organizations in either case. You're probably right about denial. If the people weren't otherwise so intelligent I'd think it was stupidity.

I've told anti-gun Jews in so many words that if they are anti-gun they should never utter the words "Never again." IMNSHO, anti-gun Jews are God's chosen people and anybody's chosen victim.

I haven't come up with anything that catchy for gays yet.

The more you sell the more they will rest. This is purely a soft sell operation.

BeoBill · Dec 26, 2015

Brooklyn said:
The more you sell the more they will rest. This is purely a soft sell operation.

I think it's more marketing than sales. We can all be marketers to the Public through our words and actions, but not everyone can be a salesman and very few are "closers."

cad68m_m · Dec 26, 2015

R56 Ed said:
Sadly, I don't think you will for city gay folks. I've known a few, and besides being off-the-charts liberal, they weren't interested in firearms. As for carrying for self defense, I think it's a non-starter, at least in cities. Country folks are probably already armed.

I can't say for sure, but I think that most city incidents of anti gay violence seem to happen in the areas of clubs, bars, restaurants and in gay enclaves while folks are out and about. Not places where anybody could or maybe even should be carrying. Alcohol, dancing and CC just don't mix well. Very few hate related incidents seem to happen in their homes/apartments. Matthew Shepard (your example) seems to have been initiated in a bar and alcohol was involved. I hope that doesn't come off as stereotyping, but those are the sentiments I encountered when I brought the subject up.

And while it's a noble idea, I think that the gay community is a dog that just won't hunt in the 2A support arena. Just my .02

Never met any members, but this group has been mentioned on MDS before

http://www.pinkpistols.org/about-the-pink-pistols/

offroaD · Dec 27, 2015

I was thinking, do people think that banning guns would lead to a utopia?

Mr H · Dec 27, 2015

offroaD said:
I was thinking, do people think that banning guns would lead to a utopia?

Some really do, yes...

Mark75H · Dec 27, 2015

offroaD said:
I was thinking, do people think that banning guns would lead to a utopia?

They actually believe that laws banning guns will cause guns to disappear.

MigraineMan · Dec 27, 2015

offroaD said:
I was thinking, do people think that banning guns would lead to a utopia?

I know several. Their statements often begin with "if everyone would just blah" or "if only bleh". This predicating statement is required to validate the unicorns-and-rainbows statement that is about to be issued ... a "wish," if you will.

Had a recent discussion about the traffic problems on I-95 :
Me: Man, traffic was bad. I sat in backups for most of an hour.
Him: If people would just drive slightly below the speed limit, we wouldn't have these traffic issues.
Me: What? No, the roads can't handle the traffic loads.
Him: Exactly. I people would drive a little slower, there would be more space for merging and traffic would flow better.
Me: It's the aggregate throughput rate that's the issue, not the merge opportunities. Besides, people don't drive that way.
Him: But if they did, it would be better. A lot better.
Me: But they don't.
Him: But if they did ...
Me: They don't. And don't go proposing that we could add a law that "forces" people to drive a certain way, because we already have those and they are completely ineffective.
Him: You're an ass.
Me: Yep.

Mr H · Dec 27, 2015

So, how IS Lone Ranger doin' these days??

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