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Old July 15th, 2019, 08:16 PM #1
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JDC Speed Shooting & Shot Calling Class AAR

As always, on my blog:
https://hebrewhammerblog.com/2019/07...t-calling-aar/

The JDC guys are a break-away from Green Ops. They are really good instructors, and I like the direction they're taking things. Ken Bloxton is also a pretty talented instructor and shooter, and the stuff we did really put me on the path (I hope) to improve some of my technique, especially vis a vis splits and transitions.
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Old July 16th, 2019, 08:33 PM #2
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Interesting AAR. I don't get too hung up on split times, but I can see the overall utility. Seems like they packed a lot into those 4 or so hours, as usual.

Side note: I beat Allen Sams on a plate rack head to head last year in one of Givens' classes. . He's a nice guy.
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Old July 17th, 2019, 07:11 AM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogarth View Post
Interesting AAR. I don't get too hung up on split times, but I can see the overall utility. Seems like they packed a lot into those 4 or so hours, as usual.
It was definitely more of a competition class. As you know, fast split times are an indicator of competency more than a necessity for winning real-world encounters here in CONUS. You can't really do a 2-3s bill drill into a dude (as a civilian or a LEO, for that matter) and come out looking great on the other side, even in a legitimate defensive shooting.

The shot calling, on the other hand, I think does have some legitimate application. And fast transitions are definitely important.

Quote:
Side note: I beat Allen Sams on a plate rack head to head last year in one of Givens' classes. . He's a nice guy.
Not a bad shooter, either. You can tell he's put in the hours.
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Old July 17th, 2019, 09:07 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwos View Post
It was definitely more of a competition class. As you know, fast split times are an indicator of competency more than a necessity for winning real-world encounters here in CONUS. You can't really do a 2-3s bill drill into a dude (as a civilian or a LEO, for that matter) and come out looking great on the other side, even in a legitimate defensive shooting.

The shot calling, on the other hand, I think does have some legitimate application. And fast transitions are definitely important.


Not a bad shooter, either. You can tell he's put in the hours.

I use competition as a means to an end, not an end in itself. Doesn't mean a class like this wouldn't still be useful to someone like me, as you said.

I think the RMR was still pretty new to Allen at that point.

And yet again we're two of the few discussing training....
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Old July 18th, 2019, 10:49 AM #5
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And yet again we're two of the few discussing training....
Someone in the industry on P&S once guesstimated the number of people in the US who took firearms training on their own dime, and it was pretty damn low... like maybe 5k-10k? And you can imagine the number of guys who do it more than once a year is some fraction of that. That's why people who do this for a few years usually wind up knowing like 25%-50% of the class and all the instructors in their area - it's a small world. Six degrees of Matt Landfair and all that.
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Old July 20th, 2019, 09:03 PM #6
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Erwos, what would you recommend as a good beginner AR training course (no formal previous training, have shot at a static range, can get good groupings, but no sling/position/dynamic experience)? Same question for pistol?
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Old July 20th, 2019, 09:37 PM #7
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Finally clicked thru to read the blog post , and did a double take . One of the participants in the photo was a carbon copy of Biggfoot Jr .

Added - And of course the class seemed potentially interesting , and good write up as usual .
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Old July 21st, 2019, 04:05 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tungsten View Post
Erwos, what would you recommend as a good beginner AR training course (no formal previous training, have shot at a static range, can get good groupings, but no sling/position/dynamic experience)? Same question for pistol?
I can only speak from my experiences in the NoVA / NW of DC area, but Green Ops, Justified Defensive Concepts, and FPF Training all have classes for that experience level that I would consider to be pretty good. You will get more out of the full 1-2 day courses than the shorter clinic-style classes, so would urge you to look into those. I have no idea what's in northern MD or PA that's good; sometimes seems like you gotta be up near Ohio to get anything decent in that area.
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Old July 21st, 2019, 08:01 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwos View Post
I can only speak from my experiences in the NoVA / NW of DC area, but Green Ops, Justified Defensive Concepts, and FPF Training all have classes for that experience level that I would consider to be pretty good. You will get more out of the full 1-2 day courses than the shorter clinic-style classes, so would urge you to look into those. I have no idea what's in northern MD or PA that's good; sometimes seems like you gotta be up near Ohio to get anything decent in that area.
I'd echo what Erwos recommends.

For AR, I'd start with the FPF Training (John Murphy) "Minuteman Rifle Course". This provides some classroom stuff on the AR platform itself, then time zeroing, and then some simple drills/marksmanship exercises. With that under your belt (and practice what you learned on your own), I'd move on to Green Ops Carbine I and II courses. I haven't trained with JDC since they formed, but as some of them came over from Green Ops, you'd probably be fine with their equivalents as well.

For handgun, I'd again start with Murphy, as you can go through his more basic, 101 courses first. Then I'd probably work some marksmanship Pistol classes with Green Ops and/or JDC, but I'd work my way back to Murphy for his ASAT class, which will give you true street survival skills, where marksmanship is only one part of the equation.

I'd also tell you to keep an eye on the FPF site for courses Murphy hosts. Each year he brings in a veritable who's who of nationwide instructors to teach at his range in VA (Wayne Dobbs/Darryl Bolke, Tom Givens, Karl Rehn, Greg Ellifritz, Paul Sharp, William Aprill, Mas Ayoob, John Johnston/Melody Lauer, Annette Evans, etc., etc., etc.).

All of the above are in VA.

I can also recommend Center Mass Combat Tactics for carbine, but their classes are so infrequent as to be unicorns. If you see one offered here, I'd jump on it. They are in MD.

For courses in PA, Erwos is again right. While some of the traveling instructors will do classes at the New Holland club, the main way to find out about those is if you follow a particular instructor online and see he/she is doing a course there. Lots of instructors do classes outside Pittsburgh, and I can recommend Jeff Bloovman of Armed Dynamics if you're more interested in doing stuff in the Philly area. Race Street Range outside Philly (run by Annette Evans) is not yet up and running as a live shooting range, but she hosts others who do non-shooting courses at her venue (I did a low light tactics and pepper spray class there).
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Old July 22nd, 2019, 11:44 AM #10
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I really wanted to do FPF's Minuteman, but it kept clashing against more advanced classes that were better for my long-term development as a shooter. Hoping to maybe hit it next year.

Now, one thing I'm trying that is gonna be interesting is TOC's Tac Pistol I course in August; they're totally unknown to me except a few positive reviews of classes on FB. Then I just gotta sort out September (99% chance it's GO Defensive Carbine) and December, and I'm good for the rest of the year - 13 classes in 12 months.
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Things I hate: .40S&W, KeyMod, AR pistols with buffer tubes, anything with an arm brace, fad-of-the-day long-range calibers
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