Sharpening stones

smdub said:

Ok, you've mentioned the "small profit margin" twice now. How do you know this? I'm in manufacturing. IME, the BOM is <$50. Maybe they are made one at a time in someones basement?

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I believe the owner, Clay Allison, still runs the company out of his house and has seven employees, including himself. Not a large company.

But I'll concede that point to you.

alucard0822 said:

Main issue I had with Lansky was the lack of precision, the bent rods aren't at a consistent angle, and flex with any pressure, so you end up having to grind more steel to match the angle, and the clamp isn't all that repeatable either, lets the blade move a little, and doesn't center it. You end up with a sharp blade, but you basically have to grind about twice the steel as a decent jig system, and it takes more than twice the time being the stones are really small. I went the Edge pro route instead of the WE, I use cheap congress tool stones, and it was less money up front, although not as fast or precise as the WE, it's sufficient for me. In many cases I can take a lightly dulled/damaged supersteel blade, match the previous angle within a couple swipes, and once the angle is matched, it only takes a few swipes to hit the entire edge bevel, leaving a perfect little burr along the entire edge. I do use a 1x30 belt sander with a leather belt, it's really fast, and doesn't really take metal off, just buffs the edge and strops it in a couple seconds. I can strop an edge that is just a little dull, and it comes back a few times before I have to take metal off with a stone. With good knives, the ability to sharpen fast and precise while removing as little metal as possible is basically what separates less expensive sharpeners like the Lansky and sharpmaker vs the expensive sharpeners.

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That mirrors my experience.

I did look at the Edge Pro prior to looking at the WE and I read nothing but glowing reports about it. Honestly, it looked like it took a little more ability than the WE and I was worried that, without actually trying it, I might not get the results I wanted with it. Not the fault of the Edge Pro, just my own shortcomings.

I'm not sure, but it does seem like the Edge Pro might have the edge (!?!) over the WE with regard to longer knives. Not sure, and that is just my observations, so maybe you can elaborate on that one.

OMCHamlin said:

I learned on the big, oil bath equipped Norton Tri-Stone, I think the stones are like 11" long, great for large blades. Having it at the right working height is a big item too. I generally finish on one of several sets of Crock sticks and/or a strop for certain blades. I have picked up a few diamond hones as well, they are great fro establishing an initial edge on a badly abused edge.
I also have a narrow, vertical strip sander, and that Ken Onion Work Sharp system, and it does well on the wife's kitchen knives. She abuses them, and I have to warn her when I have just sharpened them. I have a Lansky, but I can't recall the last time I used it.
Spyderco Tri-Angle Sharpmaker for serrated edges as well. I guess what I am trying to say is it never hurts to have options available. I usually find decent stones at flea markets or yard sales, provided they haven't been wallowed out or embedded with crud.

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I would suggest that your sharpening skills are far superior to mine. I have tried to master a stone for years and I just could not get it. Maybe the WE is the "crutch" I needed to get a good edge. I know others who can sit down with a couple of stones and produce a fantastic edge, but even with their help, my issues remained.

Believe me, if I could have come close with stones I never would have spent the money on the WE. As it is, with my abilities, I needed some help and I'm glad I went this route.

Vic said:

I use the Spyderco Sharpmaker. It comes with a medium and fine stone and I ordered a coarse diamond stone for it too. If you can hold a knife blade vertical and slide it down the stones while holding it vertical you can sharpen a knife. Here it is on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Tri-Angle-Sharpmaker-Sharpener-204MF/dp/B000Q9C4AE

It is the best system I have used and once you get them sharp, it takes about 5 minutes to keep them sharp. I have spent some time on a knife and it will make them stupid sharp like a razor. This is without stropping.
V

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I have used similar systems and they didn't give me the edge I was looking for. Not bad, just not what I wanted. As I stated in my previous post, that may have been more an issue with my skills/technique than the equipment. If that works for you than I would not spend the money on the WE.

Again, for me, I need the help...

What sort of test would you do to determine the effectiveness of the wicked edge system vs a Lansky for sharpness? It seems like a huge bit off difference in the price but the wicked edge seems pretty versatile.

I have a CPM 20CV steel edged favorite carry pocket knife that is seriously challenging me. Been trying to resurrect the edge on it with a Work Sharp that I have but I think I'm just going to whetstone it. It's too nice to trust to the Work Sharp even with the different belt grits I have been working with.

I do find the attachments for 50 and 20 knife edge guide attachments for the Work Sharp to be sloppy, and it translates into really inconsistent ground edges. When you can feel a burr on one side and swap to the other and not get a burr... something is wrong. And it's not my technique or use of the sharpening tool/guide.

Old school and finesse and patience wins the day

Doco Overboard said:

What sort of test would you do to determine the effectiveness of the wicked edge system vs a Lansky for sharpness? It seems like a huge bit off difference in the price but the wicked edge seems pretty versatile.

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It is a huge difference in price, and certainly not a requirement. So far I've found that there are lots of ways to get a knife sharp, but the problem is attaining a specific angle and having that angle be repeatable. For me, no other system works as well.

YMMV

I use an Edge Pro Apex 4 on my EDC knife (CSD Griptilian) and my chef knives (Messermeister Meridian Elites). It does a pretty decent job.

We also have an old LC Tru Hone in the restaurant. I'd never use it on anything other than run-of-the-mill "cheap" chef knives but I love that dang thing.

I've never seen that, but it looks like it would make quick work of a utility kitchen knife.

Looks like it would be much quicker than a WE for a restaurant, but it's also not cheap.

I think that Edge Works" in Frederick, carries a selection of sharpening stones.

Winged Pig said:

I've never seen that, but it looks like it would make quick work of a utility kitchen knife.

Looks like it would be much quicker than a WE for a restaurant, but it's also not cheap.

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It belongs to our chef. He got it from an estate sale YEARS ago.

Winged Pig said:

That mirrors my experience.

I did look at the Edge Pro prior to looking at the WE and I read nothing but glowing reports about it. Honestly, it looked like it took a little more ability than the WE and I was worried that, without actually trying it, I might not get the results I wanted with it. Not the fault of the Edge Pro, just my own shortcomings.

I'm not sure, but it does seem like the Edge Pro might have the edge (!?!) over the WE with regard to longer knives. Not sure, and that is just my observations, so maybe you can elaborate on that one.

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The Wicked edge is nice in that you don't have to flip the knife over, the jig and blade are fixed and results are very repeatable. The EP can be a little tricky to use with some grinds, you place the grind flat against the little platform, and hold it down as you sharpen, easy on a full flat grind, or low grind, but can be tough with compound grinds, or a grind about 1/2 way up, makes it hard to keep the blade from rocking a bit, especially when flipping it and sharpening with my stupid side hand. It also can get some grit that wears off of the stone onto the surface and scuff the flats of a blade, so have to keep it clean, and I replace the masking tape every time I use it, and will tape expensive folders to protect the blade.

It is nice that you are not locked into their expensive stones, you can buy, or easily make backings, and use 6" flat stones of whatever width or profile you want glued to backings. I also am a little leery of clamping expensive blades with various finishes into something, to easy to leave marks, they just lay on the soft EP table, so provided it's clean, the blade won't get scuffed. It does work well with longer blades, only really keeps a decent angle for about 5" of blade, but not being clamped, you can move the blade around easily and sharpen the whole thing in sections without re-clamping. It is also nice for serrated blades, you can match the angle with a round or triangle stone, and repair the bevel side, then just smooth out the back side with a low angle and fine stone. I do primarily just use 240-400-600 SiC stones on everything, the 240 cuts fast, and the 600 leaves a nice frosty finish that strops up nice to a good balance between a toothy bite for hard stuff, and a fine polish that glides through soft material. Have been looking into the WE GO, but it's still expensive, or the KME which seems to have the best of both the WE and EP for less money.

Have a lot of folders I rotate through carrying, and some steels are a royal PITA to sharpen without fast cutting stones and a decent angle guide, so while I like the EP it's not without it's shortcomings. I am always looking for a better system, but it's got to be awesome to send a few hundreds on, and it has to be versatile, being I carry a ridiculous variety of blade shapes and grinds.

My uncle uses stones a bit and he swears by the Bob Kramer water stones by Zwilling. I think you can find them at bed bath and beyond. As mentioned previously check out Willy’s in geeenwood DE as well.

rbird7282 said:

Only place I can think of is something like The Woodworker’s Club (Woodcraft store) in Rockville.
They have both Arkansas stones and Japanese water stones. Personally I prefer Japanese water stones


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yep

alucard0822 said:

Have a lot of folders I rotate through carrying, and some steels are a royal PITA to sharpen without fast cutting stones and a decent angle guide, so while I like the EP it's not without it's shortcomings. I am always looking for a better system, but it's got to be awesome to send a few hundreds on, and it has to be versatile, being I carry a ridiculous variety of blade shapes and grinds.

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Thanks for that post.

You have a very nice collection and that was a great explanation of the EP system. After watching the videos I thought it would do much better with longer knives than the WE. While it seems I can get close, on longer knives I can see a slight difference in the bevel from the middle to the ends of the knife. Not enough to make me regret my WE, but I can notice it. I could remove the knife from the clamp and move it to get the bevel closer to where it should be, but I don't think anyone notices but me. And besides, the longs knives that I work with are my wife's kitchen knives and as long as they are sharp she's good with them.

I believe the meter leans towards the EP with regards to longer knives.

If I'm not mistaken, that is a Blurple Manix 2 in the bottom row? I have a Blurple Para 3 and that is the knife (S110V steel) that finally pushed me to get the WE. Regular stones didn't do much of anything on that steel. Again, my techniques may have been part of the problem, but as soon as I used the diamond stones it was like night and day. I know I could have found cheaper diamond stones, Like those available for the Lansky system, but I find rationalization helps me feel better about spending money I shouldn't. LOL

I am very happy with the WE, but I do recognize that there are other sharpeners out there that do things well, and cheaper.

Winged Pig said:

Thanks for that post.

You have a very nice collection and that was a great explanation of the EP system. After watching the videos I thought it would do much better with longer knives than the WE. While it seems I can get close, on longer knives I can see a slight difference in the bevel from the middle to the ends of the knife. Not enough to make me regret my WE, but I can notice it. I could remove the knife from the clamp and move it to get the bevel closer to where it should be, but I don't think anyone notices but me. And besides, the longs knives that I work with are my wife's kitchen knives and as long as they are sharp she's good with them.

I believe the meter leans towards the EP with regards to longer knives.

If I'm not mistaken, that is a Blurple Manix 2 in the bottom row? I have a Blurple Para 3 and that is the knife (S110V steel) that finally pushed me to get the WE. Regular stones didn't do much of anything on that steel. Again, my techniques may have been part of the problem, but as soon as I used the diamond stones it was like night and day. I know I could have found cheaper diamond stones, Like those available for the Lansky system, but I find rationalization helps me feel better about spending money I shouldn't. LOL

I am very happy with the WE, but I do recognize that there are other sharpeners out there that do things well, and cheaper.

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Actually the BHQ exclusive Manix2 in CPM M4 with navy blue dyed scales, same dye job and layout as my BHQ M4 Yojimbo, I hate the "jade" scales they came with, but they are still translucent, and look lighter/blue-er in sunlight. The Manix 2 LW is S110V though. Almost all of my carry stuff is in S30V or better, and is tough to sharpen, the S90V, M4 and S110v take forever to sharpen on natural or Aluminum oxide, so diamond or Silicon carbide is practically a requirement to sharpen them. With lesser steel like 154CM, the same stones cut so incredibly fast, you can repair chips in just a couple passes. Puts into perspective just how ridiculously wear resistant the super steels are.

I have a question for you guys all using expensive knife sharpeners for crazy sharp precision edges. Do you cut your own deer up, or send it to the butcher?

I butcher all mine and just use a Smith Arkansas soft stone. Mine is 35 years old and in a cedar box, but same thing and I just do it in my hand with water. I just use a water drip if at the sink or water in a bucket if sitting outside.

Archeryrob said:

I have a question for you guys all using expensive knife sharpeners for crazy sharp precision edges. Do you cut your own deer up, or send it to the butcher?

I butcher all mine and just use a Smith Arkansas soft stone. Mine is 35 years old and in a cedar box, but same thing and I just do it in my hand with water. I just use a water drip if at the sink or water in a bucket if sitting outside.

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In my opinion you are doing everything you need to do, and apparently it's working fine. I was talking to an individual who happen to see one of my knives and was admiring the mirror bevel and it's sharpness. He asked what he had to do to get that on his knife. I asked him what he was using it for and he said he had just got into deer hunting and recently killed his first buck.

I showed him one of those five dollar pull through plastic sharpeners and recommended that to him. He asked how that would put the same edge on his knife as what I had. I told him it would not, but as long as he had a decent knife it would still be plenty sharp to cut a deer, and he could carry the sharpener in his pocket for touch ups.

I suggested he save his money for more deer hunts, ammo and hunting gear and just use his knife as the tool he needs it to be.

Spending the money for a WE, EP or other higher end sharpener and continually attempting to get a better, more perfect mirror edge is a hobby, certainly not a necessity. I enjoy it so it works for me, but it is in no way a requirement. Honestly, I use my EDC knives mostly to cut cardboard and string. I get a big goofy smile every time my knife glides through a cardboard box like it wasn't there, but it truth, I could have saved a lot of money and maybe just smiled a little less.

Like I said, it's a hobby.

alucard0822 said:

Actually the BHQ exclusive Manix2 in CPM M4 with navy blue dyed scales, same dye job and layout as my BHQ M4 Yojimbo, I hate the "jade" scales they came with, but they are still translucent, and look lighter/blue-er in sunlight. The Manix 2 LW is S110V though. Almost all of my carry stuff is in S30V or better, and is tough to sharpen, the S90V, M4 and S110v take forever to sharpen on natural or Aluminum oxide, so diamond or Silicon carbide is practically a requirement to sharpen them. With lesser steel like 154CM, the same stones cut so incredibly fast, you can repair chips in just a couple passes. Puts into perspective just how ridiculously wear resistant the super steels are.

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Gotcha. I am not familiar with M4 in a knife, but I do have some tools in M4 steel and they seem to hold an edge for a long time. I have several knives in various super steels and they all were a huge pain until I moved to the diamond stones. Now I don't mind working their edges at all.

And I agree, until I obtained a few of the super steels I had no idea how long they would hold an edge. Very impressive.

Archeryrob said:

I have a question for you guys all using expensive knife sharpeners for crazy sharp precision edges. Do you cut your own deer up, or send it to the butcher?

I butcher all mine and just use a Smith Arkansas soft stone. Mine is 35 years old and in a cedar box, but same thing and I just do it in my hand with water. I just use a water drip if at the sink or water in a bucket if sitting outside.

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I don’t use expensive knifes, and I cut up a lot of wild game, and big pieces of meat from the store, as it’s cheaper. I almost exclusively used carbon steel blades. Like you I use a Arkansas stone, but I take it one step farther, and use a barbers stone to get, and keep a super sharp edge. Barbers stones run around 6000-8000 grit. They are small, and easy to keep with you. I used 1 knife to field dress 5 deer this year, and I never had to use the stone, it’s still very sharp. That knife is a Mora. I use a different knife to process most of this meat, I had to run it over the barbers stone for about 10 laps, and it was good to go. That knife is a hand forged knife made by Jeff White. He makes rustic looking trade knife, I love them, and have a few.