12 Gauge Home Defense Video Field Test: Effects On Walls and Simulated Bodies

willtill · Mar 27, 2020

Doco Overboard said:
View attachment 280980

Rifle scope driven

Blue blossoms a flower that means don't forget mine

:lol:

It's known the world over. No one is immune to it if they're not aware it can occur.

Doco Overboard · Mar 27, 2020

I busted my nose one day over where the bass pro is now near Glen Burnie deer hunting. I got the deer under a fence over by the high way and thought I was going to bleed out by the time I walked around to get my truck where we parked by the pasture. I knew that sucker went off that time lol.

willtill · Mar 27, 2020

Doco Overboard said:
I busted my nose one day over where the bass pro is now near Glen Burnie deer hunting. I got the deer under a fence over by the high way and thought I was going to bleed out by the time I walked around to get my truck where we parked by the pasture. I knew that sucker went off that time lol.

I still have a Harrington & Richardson 12 gauge single shot; that will more often than not; give me a bloody nose every time I shoot it. The way the wrist is with that shotgun and the way I grip it and lay my cheek against the stock; it always smacks me in the nose on recoil. :sad20:

outrider58 · Mar 27, 2020

Doco Overboard said:
View attachment 280980

BTDT! Hahahaha!

jcutonilli · Mar 28, 2020

Another noob weighs in on the subject

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxK515hsh6k

Where are those reeducation camps when you need them?

hogarth · Mar 28, 2020

jcutonilli said:
Another noob weighs in on the subject

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxK515hsh6k

Where are those reeducation camps when you need them?

He's a great shooter. How many people has he put into the dirt with a shotgun? Does he have a degree or other training in terminal ballistics? Hmmm.

So basically he's a highly experienced SHOOTER in front of a wall of ammo.

jcutonilli · Mar 28, 2020

hogarth said:
He's a great shooter. How many people has he put into the dirt with a shotgun? Does he have a degree or other training in terminal ballistics? Hmmm.

So basically he's a highly experienced SHOOTER in front of a wall of ammo.

IS he good enough?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srpeUNhfFN4

Sirex · Mar 28, 2020

I like Paul's videos, but I am not using birdshot for defense unless;
1. It is all I have left

2. I am skeet shooting molotov cocktails that attackers are lighting to throw.

PowPow · Mar 28, 2020

Sirex said:
I like Paul's videos, but I am not using birdshot for defense unless;
1. It is all I have left

2. I am skeet shooting molotov cocktails that attackers are lighting to throw.

I think it's important to remember what Paul actually said @11:54 (emphasis mine): "So, the bottom-line question - is bird shot a viable option in your home defense shotgun? And I would say again: If you use a fairly powerful bird shot load, absolutely yes it is".

He's not advocating that folks use bird shot over better options. He's simply saying that he believes a "fairly powerful bird shot load" is an option. I've got 00 Buck in mine. I don't think he would argue that AT ALL. I'm not an expert.

Blaster229 · Mar 28, 2020

PowPow said:
I think it's important to remember what Paul actually said @11:54 (emphasis mine): "So, the bottom-line question - is bird shot a viable option in your home defense shotgun? And I would say again: If you use a fairly powerful bird shot load, absolutely yes it is".

He's not advocating that folks use bird shot over better options. He's simply saying that he believes a "fairly powerful bird shot load" is an option. I've got 00 Buck in mine. I don't think he would argue that AT ALL. I'm not an expert.

I believe a sharp crossbow bolt is a viable option as well.

PowPow · Mar 28, 2020

Blaster229 said:
I believe a sharp crossbow bolt is a viable option as well.

If you have one.

outrider58 · Mar 28, 2020

Blaster229 said:
I believe a sharp crossbow bolt is a viable option as well.

IDK. I've seen heart-shot deer cover 100+ yards before face planting. There are virtually no instant stop capabilities with archery equipment short of a spine shot. Waiting for someone to bleed out can eat up some time.

Ever reload a Xbow?

jcutonilli · Mar 28, 2020

Blaster229 said:
I believe a sharp crossbow bolt is a viable option as well.

Is this the correct answer?

Blaster229 said:
I've never used a crossbow either but can say that is not feasible as well. It could work, but not practical.

Blaster229 · Mar 28, 2020

jcutonilli said:
Is this the correct answer?

John John Johnny. Seems you're a little obsessed. Take a break. Go eat some lock down pie.

willtill · Mar 28, 2020

outrider58 said:
IDK. I've seen heart-shot deer cover 100+ yards before face planting. There are virtually no instant stop capabilities with archery equipment short of a spine shot. Waiting for someone to bleed out can eat up some time.

Ever reload a Xbow?

Yea, but they will slice through a deer like a red hot poker through butter. The last deer I took (a spike) with my Excalibur Vortex, probably ran 50 yards and face planted. But it was going downhill and I think it was all dead momentum for that deer anyway...

Ya, I wouldn't use a crossbow for H.D. I know everyone is tongue in cheek about that anyway... I hope.

hogarth · Mar 28, 2020

jcutonilli said:
IS he good enough?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srpeUNhfFN4

Can hardly understand a word Clint says, but....

...what does he say at 4:04? Birdshot for hunting, buckshot for self defense, slugs for longer range.

I'd use birdshot if that's all I had. Certainly better than harsh language, right? But that doesn't make it my preference, no matter my living situation.

Lightyear68 · Mar 28, 2020

A good discussion for the most part.

Here's an alternative view from a home defense instructor who makes a case against shotguns for home defense altogether. His view of wall penetration is sh*t happens.

jcutonilli · Mar 28, 2020

hogarth said:
Can hardly understand a word Clint says, but....

...what does he say at 4:04? Birdshot for hunting, buckshot for self defense, slugs for longer range.

I'd use birdshot if that's all I had. Certainly better than harsh language, right? But that doesn't make it my preference, no matter my living situation.

You apparently missed a lot. Just past the minute mark, he talked about how handguns are more for convenience rather than effectiveness. 80% of people shot survive. Around the 2:50 mark he also indicated that at 5 yards number six bird shot would make someone stop what they are doing, which is the whole point of defensive gun use.

What he says at 4:04 is certainly good general advice, but I am not sure it is definitive for every situation. You certainly would not want to hunt deer with bird shot. Buck shot certainly is better at killing someone than bird shot and bird shot may not be able to reliably incapacitate people at longer distances making buck shot the preferred load in general self defense situations.

One of the things the original video points out is that bird shot may be effective at short ranges. Clint makes the same observation. I believe Jerry was trying to make a similar point.

The advantage of using it inside the home is that the distances are typically short enough for it to be effective and any misses are more likely to not be lethal for people on the other side of a wall. Is it appropriate for every situation? No.

hogarth · Mar 28, 2020

jcutonilli said:
You apparently missed a lot. Just past the minute mark, he talked about how handguns are more for convenience rather than effectiveness. 80% of people shot survive. Around the 2:50 mark he also indicated that at 5 yards number six bird shot would make someone stop what they are doing, which is the whole point of defensive gun use.

What he says at 4:04 is certainly good general advice, but I am not sure it is definitive for every situation. You certainly would not want to hunt deer with bird shot. Buck shot certainly is better at killing someone than bird shot and bird shot may not be able to reliably incapacitate people at longer distances making buck shot the preferred load in general self defense situations.

One of the things the original video points out is that bird shot may be effective at short ranges. Clint makes the same observation. I believe Jerry was trying to make a similar point.

The advantage of using it inside the home is that the distances are typically short enough for it to be effective and any misses are more likely to not be lethal for people on the other side of a wall. Is it appropriate for every situation? No.

Do you think I magically picked the 4:04 mark? I watched the whole thing. I believe he said #6 TO THE FACE (he even emphasizes this by saying it twice) would do the trick. What if you don't hit the face? Does it become a "maybe" then? What if you're only afforded a shot from the side? Will the #6 penetrate enough? Maybe?

And then he goes on to say "would buckshot be better? Maybe, and I wouldn't argue that point."

Of course, before all of that, he says the biggest problem with the shotgun is that most people don't understand it. Seems like that's pretty common in this very thread.

jcutonilli · Mar 28, 2020

hogarth said:
Do you think I magically picked the 4:04 mark? I watched the whole thing. I believe he said #6 TO THE FACE (he even emphasizes this by saying it twice) would do the trick. What if you don't hit the face? Does it become a "maybe" then? What if you're only afforded a shot from the side? Will the #6 penetrate enough? Maybe?

And then he goes on to say "would buckshot be better? Maybe, and I wouldn't argue that point."

Of course, before all of that, he says the biggest problem with the shotgun is that most people don't understand it. Seems like that's pretty common in this very thread.

I believe you said "Can hardly understand a word Clint says", which suggests you missed things. Additionally, you never mentioned he talked about shooting someone with bird shot, which again suggests you missed that point.

I think you are still missing the point of what he was saying. Every shot, no matter what you shoot them with, is a maybe shot. In other videos he has talked about shots bouncing of peoples head and center of mass shots not incapacitating them. If it does not work, shoot them again. Repeat until successful. You don't have to kill someone for it to be a successful stop. You just have to stop them from attacking you.

Buck shot is certainly better at penetration compared to bird shot. I would not argue that point either. What the original videos indicates is that bird shot may be good enough at certain distances.

That increased penetration of buck shot may be detrimental in certain circumstances. Buck shot is so good that it will still be lethal after it passes through one or more walls. While bird shot can penetrate a wall, it tends to loose its lethality after penetrating a wall. An innocent bystander on the other side may just be injured with bird shot, while they may be killed with buck shot.

I also agree that the biggest problem with the shotgun is that most people do not understand it.

12 Gauge Home Defense Video Field Test: Effects On Walls and Simulated Bodies

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