Body Armor- ceramic vs. steel

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  • gre24ene

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 6, 2012
    1,519
    Put a piece of plate steel in the half wall. would make a good barrier.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,407
    Glen Burnie
    You need nothing in that wall. You get small and prone behind that half wall with a pistol and you own that whole funnel.
     

    Harrys

    Short Round
    Jul 12, 2014
    3,362
    SOMD
    I’d go ceramic. They weight about the same as steel unless you bust your budget for the much lighter ones. Spalling is a concern with steel. Good ceramic has multi hit capability like steel but doesn’t deflect the projectile into pieces into your face and chin. Ceramic is more fragile in the sense that it shouldn’t be thrown around due to the possibility of cracking it. I have two sets of ceramic plates and they were in the $500 range each for just the set of plates. But they came in sets. Steel is definitely more budget friendly and the spalling issue can be mitigated to some degree with linex coating.
    As for the carrier, cheap is cheap. I can’t speak to anything other than US made products but they can be pricey. Others with more experience with lower end brands can possibly make some recommendations. My recommendations will bust your budget. Crye JPC, TAG, or Tactical Tailor (both have several types of carriers). But you’re getting into the $300+ range. Although TAG has their classic carrier under $300. But like most things, you get what you pay for. Just my $.02 but others with more experience will be along to point out a few more things I’m sure.

    Soft Armor

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=753&v=z72zgFFp7m0&feature=emb_logo
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    just happen to be an armor dealer. Have worn armor as a Police Officer and in 7 combat tour’s as an Infantryman and an MP. I’ll give the quickest rundown I can. The manufacturers warranty means nothing on hard drive plates. If you have any questions to whether your hard plates combat readiness after rhe manufacturers warranty, just go to your local vet, pay them $25 and have them X-Rayed. But, if you have metal plates he prepared for bad news. All metal plates by any given manufacturer cannot be guaranteed to have the same stopping power. As each batch of poured metal cannot be identical. Then you have the issue of cooling it, oil? Or water? Oil guarantees a more even cooling and less defaults but is exponentially more expensive and as such MOST manufacturers use water. The. They have to cut them from a main sheet, and bend them. Each of these processes makes them even weaker.

    Every type of armor has a pro and a con
    METALS
    PROS
    - Cheapest armor overall
    - Longest warranties
    - thinnest plates
    CONS
    - Weight, pound for pound they are the heaviest plates on the market.
    - They maintain ambient temperature (on a hot day you have a hot piece of metal on your chest, on a cold day an Ice cube.)
    - because they ate hard edged, they will cut, pinch and bruise you around the edges of the plates. Thats why people wear trauma pads between the plate and their skin.
    - Spalling - unless that metal plate is wrapped in kevlar and covered by nylon or doesn’t have a thick coat of anti-spalling material on it, when a round hits that plate, it will splinter. And guess where those shards end up??? Your body or someone standing next to you.
    - Ricochets, often confused with spalling. The round has to go somewhere. Insulated plates capture and encapsulates the round. Metals deflect. If your leaning back when that round hits your chest, it will likely end up in your face.

    UHWMPE (Ultra High Weight Molecular Polyethylene
    PROS
    - lightest plates on the planet
    - they float

    CONS
    - they WILL NOT stop any steel core rounds. Any real Russian or Chinese ammo, Wolf, Bear, Tula, M8555, SS109 will go straight through them like butter
    - they can melt @180 degrees, you cant keep them in your car in the summer, close to an engine or a fire, you will lose you ballistic protection.

    Ceramics
    PROS
    - the only plates tested and approved for Level IV the highest level of armor that can be worn. There is no such thing as a level IV metal plate.
    - the only plate tested that can be worn that will stop an Armor Piercing round.
    CONS
    They are heavy, but always lighter pound for
    Pound than metal.

    There are hybrid plates out there which use more than 1 of these technologies but they are pricey but perform well and are lighter.

    Metals are considered a poor mans armor. Theres a reason NO US Military units wear them or Police Departments that are federally funded can’t purchase metal plates with federal grants

    There are a number of steel level IV NIJ certified plates out there.

    Yeah, I personally wouldn't got steel if cost were no object. As you mentioned, steel weighs a crap ton compared to ceramic. Not that for body armor it is much of an issue, but steel is true multi hit capable. Within reason, for a hardened steel plate, if the round doesn't penetrate, you can sit there pouring hundreds of rounds in to the plate before it MIGHT break.

    Ceramic is generally multi hit rated, but if you do managed to put two rounds in to exactly the same place, the 2nd one is going through. Generally if you get hit with more than one, the second one is going to be offset that inch or two needed to catching some undamaged (or not completely compromised) armor and be stopped. But ceramic is definitely "if it gets hit, replace it".

    Steel you could absolutely use again.

    Ceramic if reasonably well cared for is going to last decades in storage. In use, yeah I probably wouldn't want to keep using it for decades.

    Steel, unless you submerge it in salt water or something like that, its centuries if coated, even in daily use.

    the other part is, plenty of steel plate manufacturers have NIJ certifications. Yes, the steel can be different from batch to batch. But if the manufacturer has reasonable quality and process controls in places, they'll be applicably the same from batch to batch. The strength of the plate would have to be so border line to pass certification for a slightly off plate to then fail. That's generally not something you'd see for all intents and purposes.

    And yeah, my 2c are I would not rely on a plate coating. I have steel plates because I am cheap. I have them covered in a Kevlar spall cover (the testing I've seen from the manufacturer of it, it stopped spall from either 8 or 10 M193 in to the plate without letting any of it out).

    I have no plans to go for long runs wearing it. I have them in case of a bump in the night more than anything. I do have an even lighter set of Kevlar-UHMWPE inserts in a low pro carrier under my bed for immediately pulling on, but those are only pistol rated.

    Any kind of fantasies of bugging out involve driving somewhere. If I had to run on foot from a vehicle, I am probably just taking whatever is physically on me at the time and grabbing my rifle (if possible). IMHO an extra 8-10lbs over ceramic plates isn't going to be that much of a hindrance. If I need to hoof it over very long distances and try to survive with what I can carry with me, I don't think I'd wear/carry ANY body armor. Or at most I'd just strap on those light weight pistol rated soft plates. Because there I am probably more likely to need the few extra pounds of food and/or water that the weight of even ceramic plates represents more than I'd need body armor.

    Government doesn't buy their boys and girls steel, because it has a few downsides compared to ceramic with the biggest the weight. The other issues are things that can be overcome with some changes (coatings, spall covers, etc.) But when you have soldier weighed down with 100lbs of gear, an extra 10-15lbs to be wearing steel ESAPI equivalent plates all around vs ceramic is a huge deal. But homebodies aren't as constrained by the negatives.
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    There are a number of steel level IV NIJ certified plates out there.

    Yeah, I personally wouldn't got steel if cost were no object. As you mentioned, steel weighs a crap ton compared to ceramic. Not that for body armor it is much of an issue, but steel is true multi hit capable. Within reason, for a hardened steel plate, if the round doesn't penetrate, you can sit there pouring hundreds of rounds in to the plate before it MIGHT break.

    Ceramic is generally multi hit rated, but if you do managed to put two rounds in to exactly the same place, the 2nd one is going through. Generally if you get hit with more than one, the second one is going to be offset that inch or two needed to catching some undamaged (or not completely compromised) armor and be stopped. But ceramic is definitely "if it gets hit, replace it".

    Steel you could absolutely use again.

    Ceramic if reasonably well cared for is going to last decades in storage. In use, yeah I probably wouldn't want to keep using it for decades.

    Steel, unless you submerge it in salt water or something like that, its centuries if coated, even in daily use.

    the other part is, plenty of steel plate manufacturers have NIJ certifications. Yes, the steel can be different from batch to batch. But if the manufacturer has reasonable quality and process controls in places, they'll be applicably the same from batch to batch. The strength of the plate would have to be so border line to pass certification for a slightly off plate to then fail. That's generally not something you'd see for all intents and purposes.

    And yeah, my 2c are I would not rely on a plate coating. I have steel plates because I am cheap. I have them covered in a Kevlar spall cover (the testing I've seen from the manufacturer of it, it stopped spall from either 8 or 10 M193 in to the plate without letting any of it out).

    I have no plans to go for long runs wearing it. I have them in case of a bump in the night more than anything. I do have an even lighter set of Kevlar-UHMWPE inserts in a low pro carrier under my bed for immediately pulling on, but those are only pistol rated.

    Any kind of fantasies of bugging out involve driving somewhere. If I had to run on foot from a vehicle, I am probably just taking whatever is physically on me at the time and grabbing my rifle (if possible). IMHO an extra 8-10lbs over ceramic plates isn't going to be that much of a hindrance. If I need to hoof it over very long distances and try to survive with what I can carry with me, I don't think I'd wear/carry ANY body armor. Or at most I'd just strap on those light weight pistol rated soft plates. Because there I am probably more likely to need the few extra pounds of food and/or water that the weight of even ceramic plates represents more than I'd need body armor.

    Government doesn't buy their boys and girls steel, because it has a few downsides compared to ceramic with the biggest the weight. The other issues are things that can be overcome with some changes (coatings, spall covers, etc.) But when you have soldier weighed down with 100lbs of gear, an extra 10-15lbs to be wearing steel ESAPI equivalent plates all around vs ceramic is a huge deal. But homebodies aren't as constrained by the negatives.

    https://rmadefense.com/product/steel-level-iii-plus-ar550-plate-10x12-base-coat/
    RMA just added an ar550 III+ plate to their store for $100.
    Screen Shot 2020-08-24 at 00.23.23.jpg
    I snagged one to use as a back plate, since I figure bullet splash is less of an issue on the back side of me and the idea of the durability and .5" thick seem like it'd be good to pick one up to have around. Worst case, I have something for working out. It's 8 lbs, 6 oz...so not exactly light...but it's essentially the same weight as the 1155 level IV ceramic hybrid I got for the front...sooo meh. It's also cool the steel plates are in stock and ship right away, although the 2-4 week wait for the 1155 isn't that bad.
     

    Luigi

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 4, 2010
    655
    I have steel plates because I am cheap. I have them covered in a Kevlar spall cover (the testing I've seen from the manufacturer of it, it stopped spall from either 8 or 10 M193 in to the plate without letting any of it out).

    Which plates and spall cover do you have?
     

    jpk1md

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 13, 2007
    11,313
    If the poop actually hits the rotating air movement device I think its gonna be a field day for gear hounds to collect all sorts of shit from people that have purchased all sorts of crazy shit who then turn around and have a heard attack from the 125 lbs of shit they;re weariing while larping in the front/back yards......
     

    marcwells

    Member
    Aug 7, 2022
    19
    United States
    Long time member, but have been lurking for a while because...kids.

    It's been a while, but I figured it was either this section or the preppers section...sorrybifnits the wrong one!

    Always been thinking of purchasing body armor, but with the recent turn of events in the US... I figured it's time to finally buy.

    Was almost dead set on buying AR500.com armor, but learned they aren't NIJ certified. Then I was going to go with Spartan, but I began reading prepper sites that said ceramic hands down, and steel has no real upsides.

    What do y'all think on the issue? I would be buying this for a SHTF scenario, and won't be using these plates with any regularity. I'd prefer for them to be lighter in case we would have to travel, but I've trained /ran in 30-40lb vests before with no issue. Again, would prefer not to, but wouldn't be the end of the world. Budget is a thing, so I'd prefer not to spend more than 500 on plates and carrier.

    What are your thoughts on this debate? And also, how important is NIJ certification to you when purchasing a set?

    Finally, for plate carriers, what do y'all run/suggest for this type of situation?

    Thanks in advance, it's good to be back!
    Sheet Pipes UAE
    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    1. Ceramic vs. Steel Armor:Both ceramic and steel armor have their pros and cons, and the choice largely depends on your specific needs and preferences. Here are some key points to consider:
      • Ceramic Armor: Ceramic plates are generally lighter than steel plates, which can be an advantage if weight is a concern. They also tend to provide better multi-hit capability, meaning they can withstand multiple impacts without losing their effectiveness. However, ceramic plates can be more expensive than steel plates.
      • Steel Armor: Steel plates are often more affordable compared to ceramic plates, making them an attractive option for those on a budget. However, steel armor is usually heavier, and some designs may have a slightly increased risk of spalling (fragments) upon impact. Properly coated steel plates can mitigate spalling to some extent, but it's essential to use them with a quality plate carrier.
      • NIJ Certification: NIJ certification is important as it ensures that the armor meets certain minimum performance standards set by the National Institute of Justice. However, lack of NIJ certification doesn't necessarily mean the armor is ineffective. Many quality armor manufacturers opt not to go through the expensive and time-consuming certification process but still produce reliable armor that has been thoroughly tested.
    2. Budget and Usage: Since you mentioned that you'll be purchasing body armor for potential SHTF scenarios and not regular use, you might find more affordable options outside of NIJ-certified ceramic plates. Steel plates could be a reasonable choice in this case, as long as you carefully consider the pros and cons and select reputable steel plate options that have been adequately tested.
    3. Plate Carriers:When it comes to plate carriers, there are many options available. Some popular and reliable plate carriers that are suitable for SHTF scenarios include:
      • Condor MOPC Plate Carrier: A budget-friendly option with good durability and features.
      • Shellback Tactical Banshee Plate Carrier: A well-regarded plate carrier with a focus on comfort and functionality.
      • Ferro Concepts Slickster Plate Carrier: A minimalist and lightweight option for those who prioritize mobility.
    It's crucial to ensure the plate carrier you choose fits your plates correctly, has adjustable sizing options, and allows you to comfortably carry the necessary equipment you might need in a SHTF situation.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,407
    Glen Burnie
    1. Ceramic vs. Steel Armor:Both ceramic and steel armor have their pros and cons, and the choice largely depends on your specific needs and preferences. Here are some key points to consider:
      • Ceramic Armor: Ceramic plates are generally lighter than steel plates, which can be an advantage if weight is a concern. They also tend to provide better multi-hit capability, meaning they can withstand multiple impacts without losing their effectiveness. However, ceramic plates can be more expensive than steel plates.
      • Steel Armor: Steel plates are often more affordable compared to ceramic plates, making them an attractive option for those on a budget. However, steel armor is usually heavier, and some designs may have a slightly increased risk of spalling (fragments) upon impact. Properly coated steel plates can mitigate spalling to some extent, but it's essential to use them with a quality plate carrier.
      • NIJ Certification: NIJ certification is important as it ensures that the armor meets certain minimum performance standards set by the National Institute of Justice. However, lack of NIJ certification doesn't necessarily mean the armor is ineffective. Many quality armor manufacturers opt not to go through the expensive and time-consuming certification process but still produce reliable armor that has been thoroughly tested.
    2. Budget and Usage: Since you mentioned that you'll be purchasing body armor for potential SHTF scenarios and not regular use, you might find more affordable options outside of NIJ-certified ceramic plates. Steel plates could be a reasonable choice in this case, as long as you carefully consider the pros and cons and select reputable steel plate options that have been adequately tested.
    3. Plate Carriers:When it comes to plate carriers, there are many options available. Some popular and reliable plate carriers that are suitable for SHTF scenarios include:
      • Condor MOPC Plate Carrier: A budget-friendly option with good durability and features.
      • Shellback Tactical Banshee Plate Carrier: A well-regarded plate carrier with a focus on comfort and functionality.
      • Ferro Concepts Slickster Plate Carrier: A minimalist and lightweight option for those who prioritize mobility.
    It's crucial to ensure the plate carrier you choose fits your plates correctly, has adjustable sizing options, and allows you to comfortably carry the necessary equipment you might need in a SHTF situation.
    3 years later, may already have something. Just sayin'.
     

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