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Old November 27th, 2019, 01:03 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob A View Post
All laws are subject to abuse, pretty much at the whim of those in charge.

Please explain to me how my reading comprehension is faulty.

Also explain why you consider my comments to be a wingnut theory. FYI, I find the above implications offensive.
"All laws are subject to abuse, pretty much at the whim of those in charge." ergo, there should be no laws

I am sorry that you are offended but this does not "make any and all firearms training" a felony as it states in the OP.

The only real plausible claim presented in this thread is that it could be used to shut down open carry rallies. To know whether that is possible, one would have to know VA case law on "intimidation." Also, you have to convince 12 people and a judge that you intended to intimidate people.
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Old November 27th, 2019, 01:05 PM #22
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Originally Posted by danb View Post

This bill only makes training to further a civil disorder or intimidation illegal.

Which is worse; one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

If they manage to pass it, hopefully the courts will see it as a violation of the First Amendment's "or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

.
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Old November 27th, 2019, 01:08 PM #23
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It is so poorly written... It will have to "Interpreted" by Lawyers.

Good Luck with that.
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Old November 27th, 2019, 01:10 PM #24
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It all depends on how civil disobedience is defined. You and your buddy practice together and are against a new plastic straw ban, you could be fermenting civil disobedience. You and your shooting buddies support " We Will Not Comply" you are being civil disobedient. It is not a conspiracy theory or over reaction to do everything that can be done to stop this bill.
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Old November 27th, 2019, 01:33 PM #25
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also, as I understand the markup, the only new element of this bill is section #3. Sections 1 and 2 are already part of VA statute. https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/18.2-433.2/

and the existing statute has not made "any and all training" a felony.
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Old November 27th, 2019, 01:45 PM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danb View Post
"All laws are subject to abuse, pretty much at the whim of those in charge." ergo, there should be no laws

I am sorry that you are offended but this does not "make any and all firearms training" a felony as it states in the OP.

The only real plausible claim presented in this thread is that it could be used to shut down open carry rallies. To know whether that is possible, one would have to know VA case law on "intimidation." Also, you have to convince 12 people and a judge that you intended to intimidate people.
"Ergo there should be no laws?" Please don''t be ridiculous. The problem is the interpretation and use of laws by the unscrupulous, which is why our republic was originally constituted the way it was: because the founders understood the basics of human nature. Every time an additional law is passed, it creates opportunity for its misuse. Certainly you must understand this?

My taking offense was due to the implication that my views make me a "wingnut" - possibly you can understand that that might be offensive? If not, take another look at my post. Perhaps your reading comprehension could use some tweaking.

Your faith in the proper use of law is touching, but sadly out of touch with reality, as it is now, and as it has been throughout most of history. Naivete implies lack of experience. The world cures it, but often the cure is terminal.

Reading Stephen Halbrook's Gun Control in the Third Reich might disabuse you of some of your more dewy-eyed views on the use and misuse of the legal system. The first 50 pages might also be shockingly reminiscent of the course of Maryland's development of gun control legislation. Just a suggestion, it's a fascinating book, and the actual first look at the subject by an historian - and a long-delayed examination is was, being first published in 2013.
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Old November 27th, 2019, 01:51 PM #27
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Amazing to watch so many people on a gun sight make excuses for this type of law and to help explain away how it isn't so bad.
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Old November 27th, 2019, 01:58 PM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob A View Post
"Ergo there should be no laws?" Please don''t be ridiculous. The problem is the interpretation and use of laws by the unscrupulous, which is why our republic was originally constituted the way it was: because the founders understood the basics of human nature. Every time an additional law is passed, it creates opportunity for its misuse. Certainly you must understand this?

My taking offense was due to the implication that my views make me a "wingnut" - possibly you can understand that that might be offensive? If not, take another look at my post. Perhaps your reading comprehension could use some tweaking.

Your faith in the proper use of law is touching, but sadly out of touch with reality, as it is now, and as it has been throughout most of history. Naivete implies lack of experience. The world cures it, but often the cure is terminal.

Reading Stephen Halbrook's Gun Control in the Third Reich might disabuse you of some of your more dewy-eyed views on the use and misuse of the legal system. The first 50 pages might also be shockingly reminiscent of the course of Maryland's development of gun control legislation. Just a suggestion, it's a fascinating book, and the actual first look at the subject by an historian - and a long-delayed examination is was, being first published in 2013.
Only item # 3 is new. The other two bullets are already on the books, have been for a long time, and have not made "any and all firearms training" a felony.
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Old November 27th, 2019, 05:02 PM #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danb View Post
Only item # 3 is new. The other two bullets are already on the books, have been for a long time, and have not made "any and all firearms training" a felony.
Do you even read the posts you quote? You certainly don't reply to any points brought up.
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Old November 27th, 2019, 05:24 PM #30
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Danb, maybe you should join the MDA Facebook page. I think you'd feel more at home there. I'm surprised that you believe laws will not be unfairly applied. Have you been paying attention?
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