10/22 question

j_h_smith · Mar 9, 2015

I am on a mission to try and build a suppressed 10/22 that will faithfully cycle when using CCI Quiet 22LR ammo. We all know that this ammo is really weak, but I want to try to build something that can shoot this extremely quiet ammo.

I've done all of the polishing of the bolt, rounded the back of the bolt to help with the hammer resets, changed to a quality extractor, installed a Kidd buffer, new bolt spring for sub sonic ammo and deburred the receiver so the bolt is slicker than dog slot in the receiver.

Two questions:
1 The bolt seems to meet a lot of resistance when it hits the hammer. Would/could I install a lighter hammer spur spring? I know this could cause light firing pin hits on the cartridge causing misfires.

2 Could I mill some of the bolt material away (only in non-critical spots) to hopefully lighten the weight enough to allow the resetting of the hammer?

The firearm tries to cycle, but I think the hammer strut spring is so strong, it's not allowing the hammer to reset. So both option may have to be done to accomplish my goal.

Any other recommendations?

FFBWMD · Mar 10, 2015

CCI Quiet is only like 750fps, I doubt you will ever really get it to cycle a semi auto. Not enough powder oomph behind it.

Fox123 · Mar 10, 2015

Get an air rifle?

j_h_smith · Mar 10, 2015

Fox123 said:
Get an air rifle?

But where's the challenge in that?

Magnumite · Mar 10, 2015

To reduce the resistance from the hammer you can do one of two things, modify the hammer or the bolt. I personally would do the hammer modification first.

Relieve the lower part of the hammer where it contacts the bolt as the bolt moves back during cycling. This will raise the contact point of the hammer on the bolt, increasing the bolt's leverage against the hammer. Your limit would be where the hammer contacts the firing pin. You can try to move that initial contact point up in increments until you get the cycling you need. Reducing hammer spring force would help, but as indicated by others, may produce misfires.

IF you decide to attack the bolt, producing a slight angle of the hammer cocking surface toward the front of the bolt would enhance cycling also. Not much of an change would be need. With that light a load, you may need to lighten the bolt as well. Suppressor may help you out there.

Polish all the cocking surfaces on the hammer and bolt face to finish the job. Since the load in not hefty in the energy department, bolt lightening may also be needed. You will also be able to use recoil spring force to help achieve your goal. I would save the recoil spring for later in your work so you have chambering reliability. If you do alter the recoil spring force (changing it preferred) you may need to loosen/polish the chamber if it is a tight chamber.

You'll learn altering of spring forces and modifications will also alter the shooting character of the rifle. This can be used to your advantage so the rifle shoots and tracks well from shot to shot.

These types of modifications are permanent so you may want to track down a spare hammer and bolt to do the mods, keeping the originals. Since subsonic loads like Quiet are delinquent in the recoil inducing energy catagory, it may or may not work. Depends on how far you want to go.

Sounds like a fun project. Lots of learning there.

Mike3888 · Mar 10, 2015

Kidd makes guide bolt springs 10% lighter then factory. Don't know if that be enough.

j_h_smith · Mar 10, 2015

Mike3888 said:
Kidd makes guide bolt springs 10% lighter then factory. Don't know if that be enough.

Already installed. Still no go. I think this will be a challenge just due to the lack of powder in this round. All surfaces have been polished and the bolt (where it contacts the hammer) has been radiused. I think I will mill some of the bolt material away to see if taking away maybe 10% of the bolt's weight will do the trick. I've got plenty of spare parts, so I don't mind taking something too far as long as it's safe.

Thanks everyone.

Boom Boom · Mar 10, 2015

Why stop at Quiet? Get it to cycle reliably with CB short and a short adapter kit and I'll be impressed.

j_h_smith · Mar 10, 2015

Magnumite said:
To reduce the resistance from the hammer you can do one of two things, modify the hammer or the bolt. I personally would do the hammer modification first.

Relieve the lower part of the hammer where it contacts the bolt as the bolt moves back during cycling. This will raise the contact point of the hammer on the bolt, increasing the bolt's leverage against the hammer. Your limit would be where the hammer contacts the firing pin. You can try to move that initial contact point up in increments until you get the cycling you need. Reducing hammer spring force would help, but as indicated by others, may produce misfires.

Would this perform something like a whiplash effect, causing the momentum to occur at the last bit of hammer travel?

IF you decide to attack the bolt, producing a slight angle of the hammer cocking surface toward the front of the bolt would enhance cycling also. Not much of an change would be need. With that light a load, you may need to lighten the bolt as well. Suppressor may help you out there.

I have already done this and then polished it and the hammer surface itself. Did a little better, but not quite there.

Polish all the cocking surfaces on the hammer and bolt face to finish the job. Since the load in not hefty in the energy department, bolt lightening may also be needed. You will also be able to use recoil spring force to help achieve your goal. I would save the recoil spring for later in your work so you have chambering reliability. If you do alter the recoil spring force (changing it preferred) you may need to loosen/polish the chamber if it is a tight chamber.

All surfaces have been polished up to 1000 grit. The recoil spring has been replaced with a KIDD subsonic spring and I don't believe that did much to help the cause. It is a KIDD barrel, but I will have to check to see if it is in fact a tight chamber. Good call.

You'll learn altering of spring forces and modifications will also alter the shooting character of the rifle. This can be used to your advantage so the rifle shoots and tracks well from shot to shot.

Once I get this thing running consistently (if I can), I will know how it will shoot, at that point I will work on consistency.

These types of modifications are permanent so you may want to track down a spare hammer and bolt to do the mods, keeping the originals. Since subsonic loads like Quiet are delinquent in the recoil inducing energy catagory, it may or may not work. Depends on how far you want to go.

Sounds like a fun project. Lots of learning there.

I have plenty of parts to work with. I have 3 bolts, so if it can work with this ammo, I think I will be able to make it so.

Wish me luck!

j_h_smith · Mar 10, 2015

Boom Boom said:
Why stop at Quiet? Get it to cycle reliably with CB short and a short adapter kit and I'll be impressed.

That would be nice. Do you think a paper mache bolt will work? BTW, you must be hard to impress. Everyone is telling me this can't be done, but I'm going to make this thing work.
Or maybe I can't.

Boom Boom · Mar 10, 2015

More like a thermoplastic bolt. I like very lofty goals.

Seriously, good luck. Should be interesting.

j_h_smith · Mar 10, 2015

Firing the Quiets out of this rifle (one at a time) it sounds like a pellet gun. Possibly even more quiet than a pellet gun. The most noise I hear is the bullet impacting the target. I really would like this thing to work.

Thanks!

Pinecone · Mar 10, 2015

Lighten the bolt.

Less mass means more velocity to the bolt.

good guy 176 · Mar 10, 2015

Trim the stock to 12" and set the trigger at 2 lbs.

j_h_smith · Mar 10, 2015

Pinecone said:
Lighten the bolt.

Less mass means more velocity to the bolt.

I seem to be in a catch 22. If I lighten the bolt, will it have enough force to overcome the hammer strut spring. The weight is a good thing for a standard 10/22 because it allows the bolt to push the hammer back against the hammer strut spring which then resets the rifles. My thinking is that if I lighten the bolt, I will also have to find a lighter hammer strut spring. But then, I will have to worry about light hits causing misfires. I think I will have to look at this as a whole and not just one or components as a fix.

Thanks.

j_h_smith · Mar 10, 2015

Some success. I pulled the hammer strut spring and removed 2 turns using my sweet little belt sander and now I get consistent ejections. All hitting the floor within a 6 inch circle. However, it's still not cycling enough to strip a round from the mag.

I've got to go to PT now, so maybe a little more work this evening or tomorrow. I will probably take off 1 more turn on the spring and then I will stop. If that doesn't work, then I mill a few areas on the bolt. I'm really close at this point. I'm hoping the spring will be enough.

Wish me luck!

Mike3888 · Mar 10, 2015

Sure hope u work this out.. I'm pullin for ya.

j_h_smith · Mar 10, 2015

Mike3888 said:
Sure hope u work this out.. I'm pullin for ya.

Thanks!

Mark75H · Mar 10, 2015

I think its possible. I am very close with a Marlin 60

j_h_smith · Mar 10, 2015

Mark75H said:
I think its possible. I am very close with a Marlin 60

Yes I too think I will be able to do it. I've got a few things I want to try tomorrow if I have the time. I want to take off another turn on the Hammer Strut Spring and I may fire up the mini mill to drill a few holes in just the right spots (at least I hope they will be in the right spots) and see what happens.

Got some really disturbing insurance news today and I will probably be taking care of this most of the day tomorrow.

10/22 question

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