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Old February 11th, 2019, 11:52 PM #1
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HK21E vs M60

Iím looking for opinions... wanting to add a new belt fed to the arsenal but I donít have any hands on experience with the M60 platform.
I have been around a few HK21ís. All of them from the 21, 21A1, and the 21E. I have the chance to get as true to a German gun as any civilian is allowed to have. A Terry Dyer built registered receiver swing down ďtrue EĒ. Beautiful gun, unmolested and unfired, except for Terry function testing. Only problem is..... itís new. So I wonít shoot it.
There is also a Saco Lowell shops M60 that Iíve been looking into. Iíve done all my due diligence. Research, upgrades, what to look for in terms of receiver stretch, trunnion wear all the common M60 stuff. Problem is Iíve never shot one.
Anyone here have experience with both? If I do the M60, itís getting a us ordnance E6 kit. The 21 will be a safe queen. I do love my HKís but the 60 will be a shooter and therefore more fun.
What would you guys do???
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Old February 12th, 2019, 06:53 AM #2
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What would you guys do???
Shoot the E It has been fired and it's not real. Close, yes, but still not the same as an old original Thompson or Maxim. I don't think some use will change its value much. Heck, it's the HK that's easiest to bring back to 'as new' condition with a few spare parts.

FWIW, I've collected most of the 21E parts to convert my 23E. It's a sear gun though so was comparatively inexpensive.
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Old February 26th, 2019, 07:34 PM #3
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I have a hk 23e and absolutely love it !! Its not terrible expensive to shoot . Bought a tripod mount for it . My daughter is amazing shot with it. Shooting 199 out of 200 at 500 yards on a 12 inch gong.
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Old February 27th, 2019, 08:35 AM #4
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.... A Terry Dyer built registered receiver swing down ďtrue EĒ. Beautiful gun, unmolested and unfired, except for Terry function testing. Only problem is..... itís new. So I wonít shoot it. ....
Anyone here have experience with both? If I do the M60, itís getting a us ordnance E6 kit. The 21 will be a safe queen. I do love my HKís but the 60 will be a shooter and therefore more fun.
What would you guys do???
Yeah I am with smdub. Not to be rude but this idea of not shooting guns that are not even original guns, just seems stupid to me. I know someone else doing the same with a HK series gun. This seems so totally pointless to me. To have that much money in a gun and not shoot it! Its not historical in anyway, its not rare, sure it has value but its not a parts matching gun where a part can't be replaced. Hell you could strip all the parts out of the gun, putting new ones in and blast and refinish it and it would look as new as the day Terry got done with it. So the first thing I would do is shoot the crap out of this gun! I mean I shoot WWI MGs with WWI accessories and don't worry about it. I feel like I have much more to lose. This idea of "unfired" condition is just so pointless to me. Frankly to me, sometimes they have less value like that as who knows if they will run correctly! I sure hope they are not unfired, as in never factory tested. Sorry, don't mean to rant but thats one of my pet peeves. Its not even a gun if it does not fire! Its just a bunch of parts until it shoots!

I have shot both guns. I don't have a ton of trigger time on either but maybe a few hundred rounds on each. I think I would like the M60 a bit more. Its been a while and they were not next to each other but the M60 seemed a bit more smooth to me where the HKs are a bit violent. I mean both are good but if I was picking between the two, I think I would go M60. Also the M60 seems a bit easier to deal with when it comes to the feed area. That said the M60s are the M60s... not much in terms of caliber conversions or at least I have never seen any. Both guns are expensive with expensive upgrades and parts. Either are cheap to shoot. Both have tripods but the M60s is at least easy to get. It sucks having the bipods on the M60 barrels and that front sight is like a Tomahawk. So I give the slight edge to the M60.
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Old February 27th, 2019, 09:45 AM #5
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Yeah I am with smdub.
I'm noting this day. You agreed with me

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I have shot both guns.
You talking about Paul's 21? FWIW, 21E is completely different and has softer recoil pulse. 21 is basically just a G3 w/ a belt mechanism. The E has longer (and reinforced) receiver to get a longer bolt stroke and a much upgraded recoil buffer. Supposedly very soft shooting.
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Old February 27th, 2019, 11:08 AM #6
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I'm noting this day. You agreed with me
Even a blind squirrel.... (I stopped using the broken clock reference as millennials don't get it as digital clocks usually say nothing when broken. Yes I am a millennial technically but I am a subcategory call the Oregon trail Generation.)

Na, you have been right before and I have agreed with you. Its happened. You called that issue on the Semi MG42... We are about to see if your longer firing pin on the Type 96 works... I agree with you when you are right. When you are on your Flying Spaghetti Monster type subjects... I stick with the sane people!


Quote:
You talking about Paul's 21? FWIW, 21E is completely different and has softer recoil pulse. 21 is basically just a G3 w/ a belt mechanism. The E has longer (and reinforced) receiver to get a longer bolt stroke and a much upgraded recoil buffer. Supposedly very soft shooting.
No, Paul does not shoot his. I have fired 2-3 of these HK belt guns at this point. Your gun, Duane's gun... and I think at least one more. Shot them in 308 and 223... now am I sure it was an E model... I am not 100% sure. I did not know there was a significant difference in performance there. It also been years since I shot a M60. So its hard to compare, but I remember liking the M60 a bit more. As I said, all were good. However the M60 seemed smoother in all cases. The HK series is a bit violent, on pretty much everything about 9mm if you ask me. Its not bad, just I notice the difference. I also think the HK belt guns have a lot more feeding issues in general. Also they seem a lot harder to deal with when you do have a issue. I remember the M60 being very straight forward. Easy to shoot, easy to handle, easy to clear. I have shot at least three different M60s, one newer if I recall. It was still in a MD national guard unit. I got to shoot the M240, SAW and M60 at the same time. I remember liking that M240! Very cool gun! Like a BAR mixed with a 1919. Being a MDTCA member sure has its benefits!
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Old March 3rd, 2019, 11:20 PM #7
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Well my dilemma solved itself. Iíve been dealing with this guy on the HK for over a year. He wasnít committed to sell yet... I stayed in contact every few months, reminding him of my interest in the gun. Long story short... he sold it to someone else after he emailed me and wanted me to call him that evening. So I wasted a year of my life dealing with him on this one gun...
Tax man hit harder than I was expecting and to top it all off. Someone decided to rob my shop and I just lost around $15,000. In snap on tools...
I guess Iím not getting anything at the moment at least until the insurance company finishes breaking it off in me....
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Old March 3rd, 2019, 11:23 PM #8
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As a value semi option consider a 1919a4. You can be in one for $2k

Sorry about your situation that sucks
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Old March 4th, 2019, 06:37 AM #9
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As a value semi option consider a 1919a4. You can be in one for $2k
You do realize we are discussing machine guns here and not semi?

Agreed, OP's recent situation sucks.
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Old March 4th, 2019, 09:17 AM #10
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Originally Posted by Afdiesel View Post
Well my dilemma solved itself. Iíve been dealing with this guy on the HK for over a year. He wasnít committed to sell yet... I stayed in contact every few months, reminding him of my interest in the gun. Long story short... he sold it to someone else after he emailed me and wanted me to call him that evening. So I wasted a year of my life dealing with him on this one gun...
Yeah I think a lot of us have been there. It sucks. Every once and a while it comes together but I find very few of these actually work out.
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