PROOF that Hogan won't help us

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  • BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,064
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    Umm, no. The HPRB will be intact after 10/1/2018. The one change is that after an appearance at that board either the applicant or MSP can appeal for a de novo hearing at the OAH.

    You forget that Hogan nominates the Board members, but the MGA approves them. We could go on a merry go round with membership if he goes too far off the reservation. Unless we win BIG in the districts in November and break the DimocRAT supermajority. Which I don't see at all.

    No guarantees that the MSP will appeal any or even some of these cases. They have that option now and have not used it.

    I too don't foresee the LD going before an OAH judge to appeal. They also would have to make THEIR case from scratch, and risk yet another overturn.
     

    RoadDawg

    Nos nostraque Deo
    Dec 6, 2010
    94,189
    Wasn't there a letter sent by Hogan to the state police stating that he thought that self-defense was G&S at the beginning of his governship. My understanding that the state police sent to Frosh and one of his underlings sent a letter back that the governor didn't have the power that it must be done by the legislature and we all know how that would go.

    Ahh... the inside workings of the office that no one seems to want to consider when they are focused on bashing. :thumbsup:

    I am not enamored of all he does as the governor. However, other than the illusive rainbow unicorn pro 2A warrior we do not have the ability to put into the Statehouse at this point in time... he is our current best hope in this state. So it would serve our interest best if folks from our own camp would stop claiming there is no difference between him and jealous.
     

    lemmdus

    Active Member
    Feb 24, 2015
    380
    All that is needed is for the Secretary of the MD State Police to add "self protection" or "self defense" to G&S, but they wont. IMHO the police have no desire for MD citizens to be armed to defend themselves, that's a benefit they want to keep to themselves.

    Just wait, eventually it will reach the SCOTUS and with Gorsuch and Kavanaugh on the bench, MD will have to become "shall issue" or allow self defense under G&S.
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,064
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    All that is needed is for the Secretary of the MD State Police to add "self protection" or "self defense" to G&S, but they wont. IMHO the police have no desire for MD citizens to be armed to defend themselves, that's a benefit they want to keep to themselves.

    Just wait, eventually it will reach the SCOTUS and with Gorsuch and Kavanaugh on the bench, MD will have to become "shall issue" or allow self defense under G&S.

    And Frosh will go down fighting tooth and nail if he's still in office <SPIT!>
     

    RoadDawg

    Nos nostraque Deo
    Dec 6, 2010
    94,189
    There's no such letter from the Governor.


    This article killed any chance of it happening:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...60a9229cc10_story.html?utm_term=.67818836a03e

    Sadly... the need to tell all one knows to the reporter... has injured us by hamstringing any thing Hogan may have been thinking about doing to help us. Exuberance kills OPSEC every time it pops up in the news. That one article screwed us over. And had I been Hogan... I would not have wanted to read what’s written in that article.

    Was he going to help us?
    Was it his intention to make CCW easier for the honest folks who live here?
    We won’t know the answers to that for quite a while... if ever. It’s a damn shame.

    And...
    Is it any wonder why he turns and scurries away when any of us get close enough to ask him questions on the topic. Knowing it could end up causing trouble for him in the WaPo?
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,990
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Sadly... the need to tell all one knows to the reporter... has injured us by hamstringing any thing Hogan may have been thinking about doing to help us. Exuberance kills OPSEC every time it pops up in the news. That one article screwed us over. And had I been Hogan... I would not have wanted to read what’s written in that article.

    Was he going to help us?
    Was it his intention to make CCW easier for the honest folks who live here?
    We won’t know the answers to that for quite a while... if ever. It’s a damn shame.

    And...
    Is it any wonder why he turns and scurries away when any of us get close enough to ask him questions on the topic. Knowing it could end up causing trouble for him in the WaPo?



    giphy.gif



    But the race to the top of the post count was more important than keeping your dam mouf shut. :sad20:
     

    mxrider

    Former MSI Treasurer
    Aug 20, 2012
    3,045
    Edgewater, MD
    Can someone please remove the article? It makes my stomach do flips every time i see it as i royally screwed up.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Hogan haters, you are going to love paying $20k more in taxes under Jealous.



    I crunched some numbers. The average family of 3 would see a $20,500 increase in taxes to pay for this disgusting plan. About 40% of Maryland healthcare is already covered by Medicare/Medicaid. The remainder is waaaay more than $24 billion, more like $41 billion. Where those mysterious savings come from, only the Nurses Union knows. But... DLS has a history of overestimating revenue and underestimating costs.

    In any case, $41 billion is about $6800 per person. But since only 65% of us in MD work (roughly: 2 kids plus one adult per family), thats about $20,500 per family.

    Now if you think companies will simply hand you the money they are paying for healthcare insurance to pay your taxes, you are smoking crack.

    Another interesting tidbit: in MD Medicare/medicaid growth is 9.1% 1980-2014 while total health care spending growth is 7.6%. I would not say that is evidence these programs are controlling costs.



    You can do your own math here: https://www.cms.gov/research-statis.../nationalhealthexpenddata/nhe-fact-sheet.html
     

    East2West

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jul 20, 2013
    902
    Nomalley, Nobama
    So.... say we bite the bullet and vote for rhe gun grabber in November. At what point do we get to start pushing the MDGOP toward our view of the 2nd. I totally get the idea of making sure more Republicans are placed into Annapolis to help Hogan and how supporting him gets more Republicans elected. Im just confused on how doing so advances our cause. I feel like as long as Hogan and Szeliga are running the show thats going to be impossible, and to support their kind of GOP is to put the final nail in the coffin for our gun rights.
     

    Mr H

    Banana'd
    So.... say we bite the bullet and vote for rhe gun grabber in November. At what point do we get to start pushing the MDGOP toward our view of the 2nd. I totally get the idea of making sure more Republicans are placed into Annapolis to help Hogan and how supporting him gets more Republicans elected. Im just confused on how doing so advances our cause. I feel like as long as Hogan and Szeliga are running the show thats going to be impossible, and to support their kind of GOP is to put the final nail in the coffin for our gun rights.

    I believe I've mentioned this in another thread (though I may have just thought it really loud ;)), but that pressure--including identifying 2022 candidates all up and down the scale--needs to begin in early 2019. It also needs to be a year-round effort, and not just during session and campaigns.

    But, as a 'community', we've shown too much factionalism, parochialism, and lack of sticktuitiveness to put it all together.

    But, any effort is more than none, and I don't think anyone should run around playing Chicken Little and Droopy Dog, convincing themselves nothing can ever be done.
     

    methlab

    Active Member
    Mar 18, 2011
    486
    Northern Harford County
    If Hogan stands up as a Conservative, he will not get reelected and that is a no brainer. He is doing more for us than any liberal would. He has so much oversight due to the Frosh/Miller/Bush trio that will overturn anything he does that they don't like.

    A few years ago, the MSP were accepting applications with a better definition of the G & S reason. 300 plus Marylanders applied before the door swang shut and those applications were on hold until the Dems could change it back. Then the applications were denied under the old rules. Not much will be different if Hogan or the MSP tried it again.

    Hogan needs to stay in and keep his head low . A little is better than no support.
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,990
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Agree, especially since the article seriously misrepresented the details as they were given.

    Plus, people on several sides of this have proven for 4 years they are eager to run with incorrect information and make assumptions regarding 'facts' not in evidence.



    What details would that be? I read the article and it seems to jive pretty well with the thread that they linked to.

    Are you saying that you were misquoted? Because in post #266 of that thread you said this:
    I'll re-read it when I have more time, but other than actual names being used (though that actually lends authenticity to the piece rather than 'handles'), and the "ambush" nature of the last paragraph, I don't see much in there to get our knickers knotted over.
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,990
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Hmm, won’t load for me. Instead, a sales pitch for buying the rag.

    Let me help.


    Some leading gun rights advocates in Maryland say they’ve been buoyed by private assurances from Republican Larry Hogan that he would work to expand access to firearms if elected governor, even though Hogan is saying little publicly about that issue as he campaigns in the heavily Democratic state.

    In postings on a popular message board and in interviews with The Washington Post, several advocates said Hogan has pledged to install a state police superintendent more sympathetic to gun owners and make it easier to obtain permits to carry concealed weapons, as well as to take other steps that don’t require the consent of the Democratic-led legislature.

    “The short of it is that he is with us,” Glen LaAsmar, one of the activists, wrote in a recent posting on mdshooters.com, a message board where Hogan’s agenda has been a hot topic. In interviews, LaAsmar and four others confirmed the authenticity of their comments on the site, which does not require members to use their real names.


    Many of the activists felt let down by the state’s last Republican governor, Robert L. Ehrlich Jr., and watched in dismay last year as Gov. Martin O’Malley (D) pushed one of the toughest gun-control laws in the nation through the General Assembly — and some remain wary of Hogan.

    But Bill Sutton, who serves as secretary of Maryland Shall Issue, a group pushing for fewer restrictions on concealed-carry permits, said Hogan has told him “there are things he could potentially do to lessen the bite” of Maryland’s gun laws. Speaking for himself, not his organization, Sutton said he thinks gun owners should be patient with Hogan as he campaigns largely on economic issues.


    A look at the two candidates and their views on some of the most pressing issues in the 2014 Maryland governors race.
    “He flat out said that if he wants to have any chance at winning this election, he can’t go far right,” Sutton, who uses the handle “mxrider,” wrote in a post about a conversation he said he had with Hogan. “He has to reach out to the moderates and conservative Dem’s and has to stay with his current message.”

    The Post shared a link to dozens of public comments on the mdshooters.com Web site with the Hogan campaign Wednesday, but the campaign has not responded. Asked about the postings during a campaign stop in Bowie on Saturday, Hogan said he was not aware of them, was not sure what the comments were based on and was not interested in discussing his views on guns in any depth.


    “It’s not really an issue in the campaign,” Hogan said.

    Hogan is attempting to upset Lt. Gov. Anthony G. Brown, the Democratic nominee for governor, in a state where registered Democrats outnumber Republicans more than 2 to 1. The Anne Arundel County businessman is trying to court disaffected Democrats and independents by stressing issues such as job creation and tax cuts .

    As a candidate, Hogan has spoken in general terms about firearms and offered some specifics when asked. In some cases, his comments have echoed those that gun rights advocates say Hogan has made in private conversations.

    In a recent radio interview, for example, Hogan said: “I want to make it easier for law-abiding citizens to own guns.”

    Hogan also says he wants to make it more difficult for mentally ill people to get weapons and wants Maryland to adopt an instant-background check system used by other states.


    Lt. Governor Anthony Brown greets commuters at the New Carrollton Metro station on June 26. (Nikki Kahn/The Washington Post)
    His campaign, however, has issued no formal plans regarding gun policy and has not responded to requests to release a copy of a candidate questionnaire he filled out for the National Rifle Association, which sought his positions on a range of gun issues.

    Hogan spoke out against the Firearm Safety Act of 2013, the sweeping gun-control law that banned 45 types of assault-style rifles as well as magazines that hold more than 10 rounds and includes new fingerprinting, training and permitting requirements for those seeking to buy a handgun.

    But he has repeatedly said that he does not believe the legislature, which is controlled by Democrats, would roll back the law and that he has no plans to ask lawmakers to do so if elected. Gun rights advocates said Hogan has been up front with them about the long odds of repealing the bill.


    Still, Brown has repeatedly hammered Hogan for his opposition to the law, including with a provocative television ad that shows a military-style assault rifle resting against a swing set and later against a tree as children run by. “Assault weapons don’t belong in Maryland, and neither do Larry Hogan’s dangerous ideas,” the Brown ad says.

    Several gun rights advocates said Hogan has told them he plans to change Maryland’s rules on concealed-carry handguns, which would not require a change in statute.

    Under current law, several factors can disqualify someone from obtaining a “wear and carry” permit from Maryland State Police, including a felony conviction. But Maryland also requires applicants to show they have a “good and substantial reason” to carry a gun — and the law leaves a fair amount of discretion to state police to decide what that means.


    Under current guidelines, business owners, former police officers, private detectives, security guards and armored car guards may qualify. Others can assert that they need a gun for “personal protection,” but they must submit evidence, such as police reports or witness statements, to back up the claim.

    Hogan has said, including in one GOP primary debate, that a desire for “self defense” should be enough to meet the “good and substantial” requirement. Lowering the standard like that, advocates on both sides of issue say, could lead to a major increase in the number of permits in Maryland, which currently stands at about 14,000.

    “He has told me personally that it’s on the list,” LaAsmar said of Hogan. “That can be done with the stroke of a pen.”

    Mike Pretl, a former chairman of a state board that reviews challenges to permit decisions, said the state police superintendent has the power to “loosen the standard” for what constitutes a “good and substantial reason” to carry a gun. Pretl now advocates for gun-control measures.


    As governor, Hogan would control appointments to state boards that have influence over gun policy. Those include the panel that Pretl chaired and a separate panel, called the Handgun Roster Board, which maintains a list of guns available for sale in Maryland.

    Gun-control advocates say the next governor and the state police superintendent he selects will play crucial roles in enforcing the Firearm Safety Act .

    “It will only work effectively if it is implemented in the right way, if the administration is committed to the funding and the regulations necessary to make it work,” said Vincent DeMarco, president of Marylanders to Prevent Gun Violence.

    DeMarco cited several examples of provisions that could be affected, including how aggressively the state police use their powers to monitor firearm dealers. The gun law is also under legal challenge, and a new governor would have some sway over how vigorously it is defended in court.


    LaAsmar posted to mdshooters.com following a late August fundraiser that Hogan attended for Tim Walters, a Republican candidate for delegate in Anne Arundel. Hogan was pulled aside at the event by several activists frustrated that he had not been more vocal about gun issues to that point.

    “The big thing he asked of Maryland Gun Owners is to bear with him,” LaAsmar wrote, using the handle “Mr H.” “As suspected, this is part of a careful process. . . . He’s keeping it honest, but close to the vest.”

    Some regular posters to the site have said they are less willing to be patient, in part because they feel that Ehrlich, who made similar pleas for patience, did not take significant action on guns before being defeated by O’Malley in 2006.

    “I hate being treated like a friend in private but a leper in public,” one poster wrote under the handle “teratos.”

    Walters, who regularly posts to mdshooters.com and considers himself “an avid Second Amendment guy,” said he thinks Hogan is being “a great tactician.”

    “You govern from the middle,” Walters said. “The Second Amendment is a middle issue, I think, but not everyone agrees with that.”
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    So.... say we bite the bullet and vote for rhe gun grabber in November. At what point do we get to start pushing the MDGOP toward our view of the 2nd. I totally get the idea of making sure more Republicans are placed into Annapolis to help Hogan and how supporting him gets more Republicans elected. Im just confused on how doing so advances our cause. I feel like as long as Hogan and Szeliga are running the show thats going to be impossible, and to support their kind of GOP is to put the final nail in the coffin for our gun rights.

    The actual reality is that in the MD GOP, and to a lesser extent PA and VA GOP, about 1 of every 2 GOP Reps is a true 2A conservative. Establishment Republicans (think Chief Justice Roberts or Ohio gov Kasich) have never been real hard core 2A. In PA or VA its more like 2 of 3. But - many establishment republicans were for the assault weapons ban in the 90s before they were against it.

    So, the math is: get 2 new GOP Reps, one will likely be a strong supporter. Get 4, and 2 or possibly even 3 could be corralled. regardless of what Hogan and Szeliga push, all politics is local, individual delegates will always reflect their district. On the other hand, 100% chance Dems are in Frosh's panties. I do wish it were 2 of 2, or 4 of 4, but 1 of 2 is better than 0.

    Jealous and his disgusting tax plan will have negative coat tails. It is simply a game of numbers. The more we chip away at the veto proof majority, plaster the Dems with $20k in new taxes, the more help we have. Hogan and Szeliga are there as a stabilizer so people are comfortable crazy shit wont happen.
     

    Moon

    M-O-O-N, that spells...
    Jan 4, 2013
    2,367
    In Orbit
    The article didn't turn Hogan away from observing and protecting the 2A. He never intended to.

    The thread that the article points to has the same bad arguments to vote for Hogan as various threads do now, with the exception that it featured a great deal of gullibility in the 2014 thread, and an astonishing failure to learn anything from the past 4 years in the 2018 ones.
     

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