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Old September 11th, 2017, 01:52 PM #1
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This has to be an HBAR, RIGHT?

Box fluted for Christ sakes. this has to be MD Legal..........right?

https://www.salientarmsinternational...are-cut-barrel
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Old September 11th, 2017, 02:00 PM #2
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Does not have to be anything, let alone legal. Maryland rules bear no resemblance to logic.

Even if it was an HBAR, 14.5 " barrel is a whole other world of complicated !@# where NFA SBR rules collide with MD 29" OAL requirement.

As an aside, I have never seen a square barrel before. I have seen octagonal barrels. DO the bullets have to be square too?
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Old September 11th, 2017, 02:09 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danb View Post
Does not have to be anything, let alone legal. Maryland rules bear no resemblance to logic.

Even if it was an HBAR, 14.5 " barrel is a whole other world of complicated !@# where NFA SBR rules collide with MD 29" OAL requirement.

As an aside, I have never seen a square barrel before. I have seen octagonal barrels. DO the bullets have to be square too?
yes the bullets are indeed square
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Old September 11th, 2017, 02:12 PM #4
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My understanding of HBAR is at least one of two things must be true:
1) Advertised/marketed as a heavy barrel
2) Stamped as heavy barrel

If my understanding is correct, it could be a 2" diameter depleted uranium bull barrel that weighs ten pounds and if one of those conditions isn't met, it isn't an HBAR.
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Old September 11th, 2017, 02:24 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knastera View Post
My understanding of HBAR is at least one of two things must be true:
1) Advertised/marketed as a heavy barrel
2) Stamped as heavy barrel

If my understanding is correct, it could be a 2" diameter depleted uranium bull barrel that weighs ten pounds and if one of those conditions isn't met, it isn't an HBAR.
I am going with this.

To be fair though, if it takes square bullets, it may not be interchangeable with other ARs, so technically (like piston driven ARs)... legal.
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http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions...d/115084.p.pdf
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Old September 11th, 2017, 02:33 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danb View Post
Does not have to be anything, let alone legal. Maryland rules bear no resemblance to logic.

Even if it was an HBAR, 14.5 " barrel is a whole other world of complicated !@# where NFA SBR rules collide with MD 29" OAL requirement.

As an aside, I have never seen a square barrel before. I have seen octagonal barrels. DO the bullets have to be square too?
Just gotta pin a flash hider or brake on the barrel to make the length over 16" and good to go
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Old September 11th, 2017, 02:41 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d33rhunt3r View Post
Just gotta pin a flash hider or brake on the barrel to make the length over 16" and good to go


Agreed on the length, but that doesn't change the fact that the manufacturer of the barrel does not state that it is a heavy barrel. If the manufacturer simply added a bullet point to the description that says, "heavy barrel," it would be good to go if pinned to be 16" long.
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Old September 11th, 2017, 02:47 PM #8
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You can email the manufacturer and ask them if it's a heavy barrel. If they say it is, save the response.
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Old September 11th, 2017, 03:26 PM #9
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As noted, presumably a pinned & welded muzzle device of suitable length would hypothetically be involved.

But the linked description does not invoke the magic word of " Heavy " .

This isn't supposed to make sense, but there is no logic involved.

Instead of finding an infinite number of cool barrels and pulling out your hair about them not being Maryland complient , reverse your search process . Start with the universe of bbls marked/ advertised as Heavy , then narrow down those of interest to you.

OR , the same two IP's are frequently mentioned as being capable of machining a bbl blank from Douglass, Hart, Lija, whoever , to your desired specifications.
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Old September 11th, 2017, 03:43 PM #10
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They mill off a ton of material, reducing the diameter and strength of the barrel, and then say the process reduces whip/movement/flexing.

Hogwash.
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Old September 11th, 2017, 04:01 PM #11
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Square bullets by the way, really are a thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_gun

Quote:
Puckle demonstrated two configurations of the basic design: one, intended for use against Christian enemies, fired conventional round bullets, while the second, designed to be used against the Muslim Turks, fired square bullets. The square bullets were considered to be more damaging. They would, according to the patent, "convince the Turks of the benefits of Christian civilization". The weapon was also reported as able to fire shot, with each discharge containing sixteen musket balls.[7]
Since square boolits and square barrels are designed to target Muslims, ergo racist, they are obviously banned in MD.
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Old September 11th, 2017, 05:48 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knastera View Post
My understanding of HBAR is at least one of two things must be true:
1) Advertised/marketed as a heavy barrel
2) Stamped as heavy barrel

If my understanding is correct, it could be a 2" diameter depleted uranium bull barrel that weighs ten pounds and if one of those conditions isn't met, it isn't an HBAR.
^^^This^^^

It's really quite simple, when you think about it.
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Old September 12th, 2017, 06:34 AM #13
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PT Barnum would love that
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Old September 12th, 2017, 07:11 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outrider58 View Post
^^^This^^^

It's really quite simple, when you think about it.
I am starting to feel that the whole hbar thing via internet forums has become speculatively cautious/afraid. IF something has the dimensions, then it has it in dimensions. If you bought two heavy fluted barrels, one advertised as heavy, the other not, there is no way the state can prosecute. fake news.
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Old September 12th, 2017, 07:30 AM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recon_D0c View Post
I am starting to feel that the whole hbar thing via internet forums has become speculatively cautious/afraid. IF something has the dimensions, then it has it in dimensions. If you bought two heavy fluted barrels, one advertised as heavy, the other not, there is no way the state can prosecute. fake news.


If the state based its definition of HBAR in dimensions, I'd agree with you 100%. However, this is Maryland and the laws are messed up. If you buy a barrel that does not meet the criteria and you build a gun with it, you are breaking the law. It doesn't matter if you do or don't get caught or you do or don't get prosecuted. Not fake news, Maryland reality. If you are comfortable with breaking the law, discuss it on another forum because we don't do that here.
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Old September 12th, 2017, 07:43 AM #16
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Ignoring all of the above, the stresses and perhaps minor inaccuracies of milling a square barrel around a round hole are unknown. Even if it is a perfect job, the harmonics of a square barrel might only be known to a couple nerds at Aberdeen Proving Grounds.
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Old September 12th, 2017, 08:02 AM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recon_D0c View Post
I am starting to feel that the whole hbar thing via internet forums has become speculatively cautious/afraid. IF something has the dimensions, then it has it in dimensions. If you bought two heavy fluted barrels, one advertised as heavy, the other not, there is no way the state can prosecute. fake news.
No, this is based on direct discussions between FFLs and the State Police (and also MSI and other organizations).

For example:
https://www.facebook.com/Hafersgunsm...48552195162604

The guidance given by MSP is that an HBAR is defined as a AR15 that is marked HBAR on the Barrel or Receiver or is Marketed/Advertised by the Manufacturer as a HBAR Rifle (or barrel).

If you want a square barrel with square boolits, get an email that says its a "heavy barrel."
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Old September 12th, 2017, 08:03 AM #18
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Cool. I already have a barrel wrench for this style!
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Old September 12th, 2017, 08:09 AM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knastera View Post
My understanding of HBAR is at least one of two things must be true:
1) Advertised/marketed as a heavy barrel
2) Stamped as heavy barrel
That's my understanding as well.

My last build utilized a 20" stainless HBAR upper, the barrel isn't stamped as such but I retained the invoice from the purchase, and it clearly states "20 inch Stainless Heavy Barrel". This is also clearly noted at the vendors website, so I'm confident that meets the "advertised as HBAR" requirement. I would have preferred if it had been stamped HBAR, but it is what it is.

While I haven't encountered any "Police HBAR Checkpoints" in my travels, and I've never seen any LE agents running around shooting ranges checking paperwork or barrel stampings, but in this state IMO you are better off being prepared for any scenario where you might have to prove you are complying with the law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddy View Post
Ignoring all of the above, the stresses and perhaps minor inaccuracies of milling a square barrel around a round hole are unknown. Even if it is a perfect job, the harmonics of a square barrel might only be known to a couple nerds at Aberdeen Proving Grounds.
Good point, But even if it doesn't shoot well, it would probably make a decent weatherproof bludgeon...
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Old September 12th, 2017, 08:36 AM #20
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you guys know the square boolits are a joke right? so, what is the actual penalty for having a non-hbar. I have yet to see the actual consequence

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