CCW Self Defense Insurance?

Where are you seeing CCW Safe being $500 a year? I thought it was $129?

EDIT: Oh, I see now. Looks like they've added a few different options in the past year or so.

mumfrey said:

Where are you seeing CCW Safe being $500 a year? I see $129 for single coverage?

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Did you go to their website?

https://ccwsafe.com/permit-plans

Blaster229 said:

Did you go to their website?

https://ccwsafe.com/permit-plans

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Ya, I edited my post above...

Blaster229 said:

You do know you're comparing going through a possible murder trial to a car accident, right?



So you took an NRA class and some "CCW training". Well heck, you're good to go then. No chance of anything going awry with all that shooting experience.



I might have to look into some of that good training that prevents lawsuits.

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Valid point. The best insurance against a law suit is knowing how to properly conduct yourself. That comes through training, reading, practicing, having your strategies in mind as you walk down the street, and developing situational awareness.

When I am carrying, I am more attuned than usual and I constantly play out scenarios based on my environment. You shouldn't have to recall what to do, you should already have it in mind.

Has anyone looked into NRA CarryGuard?

Seems like everyone on this thread has gone with CCW or USCCA. Granted NRA insurance is pretty expensive. However, the other two aren't underwritten.

pilot25 said:

Has anyone looked into NRA CarryGuard?

Seems like everyone on this thread has gone with CCW or USCCA. Granted NRA insurance is pretty expensive. However, the other two aren't underwritten.

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You should really take some time and read about the plans.

https://ccwsafe.com/faq

knastera said:

Valid point. The best insurance against a law suit is knowing how to properly conduct yourself. That comes through training, reading, practicing, having your strategies in mind as you walk down the street, and developing situational awareness.

When I am carrying, I am more attuned than usual and I constantly play out scenarios based on my environment. You shouldn't have to recall what to do, you should already have it in mind.

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No it isn't. A lawsuit will happen, you'll need some representation regardless of how good of a shoot it is.

Situational awareness tells you when TO act, not when to not act. By having zero awareness, you won't act. So you won't shoot.
When you act, you will shoot, and you will need some financial backing.

I had the backing of the US government should I had to act during the job. Regardless, we all had extra Professional Liability Insurance "just in case".

Hi all.. Newbie here.
SO, I've been doing some research on these CCW plans. It may seem stupidly obvious; but they ONLY cover you for self defense. Not accidents on the gun range or any other unintentional gun violation. I live in NH and have a cabin in PA. I need to drive through MA, CT and NY. FOPA is not recognized and is a defense in those states. Even if locked and unloaded in the trunk, ammo locked in a separate locked container in the trunk, I was told that I would be arrested on felony gun charges and that I would have to ask my lawyer to use FOPA as a defense. This is all for the sake of intimidation, wasting our time and money to defend ourselves against state laws that violate Federal Laws... (Don't get me going )
The Point is, none of the CCW insurances will help you here (I've asked) and I think this is much more likely than actually being involved in a shoot.

Blaster,
Interesting read on the different insurances but I don't see them being compared to USCCA. Did I miss it or it was there and just not posted?

A bit pricey as well but may be worth it if I could see the comparisons to USCCA if they are available. Yeah, I'm lazy and don't feel like doing the research.

Blaster229 said:

No it isn't. A lawsuit will happen, you'll need some representation regardless of how good of a shoot it is.



Situational awareness tells you when TO act, not when to not act. By having zero awareness, you won't act. So you won't shoot.

When you act, you will shoot, and you will need some financial backing.



I had the backing of the US government should I had to act during the job. Regardless, we all had extra Professional Liability Insurance "just in case".

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I think you missed my point. I was not saying to foresake insurance if you are well prepared. A good driver doesn't drop extensive auto coverage because he is good behind the wheel. No matter how good someone is, he can't control everything and all circumstances. That's why in addition to good training, anyone that carries needs insurance. The point is that a great defense against being found guilty of a crime as the result of shooting someone wrongfully is to know what you are doing, which includes avoiding the dangerous situation in the first place.

3rdRcn said:

Blaster,
Interesting read on the different insurances but I don't see them being compared to USCCA. Did I miss it or it was there and just not posted?

A bit pricey as well but may be worth it if I could see the comparisons to USCCA if they are available. Yeah, I'm lazy and don't feel like doing the research.

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I am not pasting USCCA whole terms of service(it's on a pdf), but this grab here explains that all costs comes out of the total amount of the plan you have.

For example, if you have the Platinum for 2 million, all costs associated with that plan come out of that amount. It's what CCWSAFE explains as a "wasting away" coverage. So you are capped.

2. We will pay criminal defense costs incurred by an insured as follows:
a. We will pay, up to the Criminal Defense Occurrence Limit stated in the Declarations, the reasonable and necessary costs and
expenses incurred by the insured in connection with the investigation or defense of any criminal charge or criminal proceeding
arising out of the use of a firearm, or other weapon, that is “legally possessed” but only if and when:
(1) The insured is arrested or charged with, or subject to inquiry or questing regarding, a crime as a result of the use of a
firearm, or other weapon, that is “legally possessed” and used in a “act of self-defense”, and
(2) The use of the firearm, or other weapon, in an “act of self-defense” occurred during the policy period, and
(3) The arrest, charges, inquiry or questioning occurred no later than 60 days after the end of the policy period.
b. Such reasonable and necessary costs and expenses shall include legal fees incurred by the insured for the payment of
legal counsel provided that such counsel’s rates are reasonable and commensurate with the experience of the attorney, the
complexity of the proceeding, and the rates typically paid in the jurisdiction where the proceeding is pending.
c. Payment of costs and expenses will reduce the Criminal Defense Occurrence Limit shown in the Declarations.
d. We have no obligation to provide a defense in connection with the investigation or defense of any criminal charge or criminal
proceeding against the insured.

To know that defense is capped is enough for me to not go with them.

Also, the real important factor is the civili liability coverage. Since Maryland has a no civil liability law pertaining to being sued for defense INSIDE your home, there is virtually zero chance you will have any civil liability and have to pay damages from what happens in the home. That's not the important part.

The whole idea of the insurance for me is when OUTSIDE the home carrying. Civil liability is real and will happen in a shooting.

CCW SAFE pays for all defense costs through adjudication of the criminal trail AND through the Civil trial, again, not capped on defense costs. The 1 million liability coverage is a real, 1 million dollars for a monetary judgement.
If you have to pay 1 million and 2 dollars, you pay 2 bucks out of pocket.

USCCA, the civil trial defense cost AND the judgment both come out of your plan limit.
So their Gold plan for example has a $500,000 limit for defense cost AND judgments payout. So if your defense costs 500k with a judgement of 500k, you pony up 500k out of your pocket. I know those are large examples, but I just did that for example. (photo below).

CCW pays the attorneys they use their full hourly rate, and not some negotiated rate. I have no reason to not trust who they use for defense.

From what I gathered, USCCA says they will only pay a rate that is commensurate with the talent they use for that area, blah blah blah.
Their terms of service consists of 9 confusing pdf pages.

CCW lists very specific lines of everything they will cover, which to me looks like every single thing imaginable for a trial, even for mock trial costs for preparation.
https://ccwsafe.com/page/benefits
USCCA doesn't really list every specific thing they would cover. Best I get out of it is "costs associated with", which gives me no info.

Plus one of their counsel partners was Co Counsel in the George Zimmerman defense. That's probably one of the best trial experiences an attorney could have.

Also the "Police Union" model of defense attracts me. Sending out people to be with as soon as possible to walk you through, in person and not just over the phone. If CCA does that, they don't say it.

The Terms of service are pretty easy to compare, and I think worthwhile.

3rdRcn said:

Blaster,
Interesting read on the different insurances but I don't see them being compared to USCCA. Did I miss it or it was there and just not posted?

A bit pricey as well but may be worth it if I could see the comparisons to USCCA if they are available. Yeah, I'm lazy and don't feel like doing the research.

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I think this is what you want instead of the Gettysburg Address I posted. LOL

https://ccwsafe.com/page/quick-comparison-of-service

Blaster229 said:

You should really take some time and read about the plans.

https://ccwsafe.com/faq

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Be careful on how they market their insurance. At first glance of your link I was excited to see changes. However, diving a little deeper, since you challenged me, I see they are underwriting themselves via a separate company. That is quite an end around.

This is what I found in 10 minutes of research:

NRACarryGuard is LocktonAffinity "administers"

USCCA is self capatilized. They state their policies are covered by DeltaDefense, LLC but that is just a marketing company established by USCCA.

CCWsafe is similar to USCCA but really makes it convoluted. Their "underwriter" is "Captive Insurance Company" established by CCWsafe. Which is essentially themselves. Re-insured by Port Royal Insurance which means they know they don't have the capital for a major payout. So they are insuring themselves. So you need to really see what Port Royal Insurance will cover "2Ainsurance" as CCW calls it. I'm not going to research that deep. It shouldn't be that hard to see their capitalization capability. PortRoyal is a private company that also doesn't disclose their capitalization.

I did a deep research a couple years ago and it was difficult to see how these companies were capitalized so I gave up. I have not looked closely at Lockton Affinity since NRA announced their insurance but I know they are just brokers who provide administration. I've had to deal with them, years ago, when I volunteered for Habitat for Humanity. They also administer "insurance" for HFH but they just shop the policy to actual insurance companies. So I'm not sold on CarryGuard either. I cannot find out who the final party is.

It is very difficult to see what the actual potential coverage is with these companies. They can tell you they will cover up to XXXX dollars but their actual ability to do such a thing is in serious doubt.

pilot25 said:

That's new. I researched these companies a couple years ago and most if not all weren't underwritten. USCCA was on Cam and Company sometime last year before Carry Guard was introduced and they stated they were the only underwritten insurance company.

Maybe the NRA got everyone to up their game. Good news for consumers.

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It's just that looks like the NRA plan is a terrible one. I mean a little something is better than nothing.

Blaster229 said:

It's just that looks like the NRA plan is a terrible one. I mean a little something is better than nothing.

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I edited my post and took your challenge.

They are all horrible.

MaxVO2 said:

*****I hope to never have to shoot someone in self defense but I do have Utah, Va, and Florida CCW. This might seem naive but in this area (MD), Couldn’t some zealous prosecutor make the argument that if you have this type of insurance you were more likely to shoot the upstanding citizen you caught breaking into your home with burglary tools, and a duffel bag full of money and jewelry you kept in your safe, as well as your prized paw printed poster of the Taco Bell dog you were gonna sell to help finance your kids college?

I get that it’s insurance, and it would be very expensive to defend yourself if you were involved in a shooting, but it seems kinda expensive for a very remote chance of you using it? The prices being quoted are a bit less than what I pay for my umbrella insurance policy in the seven figures in case I get sued. Doubt it covers shooting someone in self defense, but it does cover the more likely scenario of being sued for a car accident, or someone drowning in my pool, or someone slipping and falling off my deck and impaling themselves accidentally on my grill skewers below (I have big skewers...)...

Does anyone know of anyone who has used this insurance? I get the peace of mind part of it, but it seems expensive for what it is.

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It does seem expensive given the extremely low chance of ever needing it. On the other hand, as others have mentioned, the magnitude of the situation if you ever do need it is very high. And put another way, it's about the same cost as a Netflix subscription. $10-15 a month isn't going to kill my budget. Hiring a lawyer out of pocket if I ever do need one certainly will.

pilot25 said:

Be careful on how they market their insurance. At first glance of your link I was excited to see changes. However, diving a little deeper, since you challenged me, I see they are underwriting themselves via a separate company. That is quite an end around.

This is what I found in 10 minutes of research:

NRACarryGuard is LocktonAffinity "administers"

USCCA is self capatilized. They state their policies are covered by DeltaDefense, LLC but that is just a marketing company established by USCCA.

CCWsafe is similar to USCCA but really makes it convoluted. Their "underwriter" is "Captive Insurance Company" established by CCWsafe. Which is essentially themselves. Re-insured by Port Royal Insurance which means they know they don't have the capital for a major payout. So they are insuring themselves. So you need to really see what Port Royal Insurance will cover "2Ainsurance" as CCW calls it. I'm not going to research that deep. It shouldn't be that hard to see their capitalization capability. PortRoyal is a private company that also doesn't disclose their capitalization.

I did a deep research a couple years ago and it was difficult to see how these companies were capitalized so I gave up. I have not looked closely at Lockton Affinity since NRA announced their insurance but I know they are just brokers who provide administration. I've had to deal with them, years ago, when I volunteered for Habitat for Humanity. They also administer "insurance" for HFH but they just shop the policy to actual insurance companies. So I'm not sold on CarryGuard either. I cannot find out who the final party is.

It is very difficult to see what the actual potential coverage is with these companies. They can tell you they will cover up to XXXX dollars but their actual ability to do such a thing is in serious doubt.

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The above is exactly why I recommended Massad Ayoob training and Armed Citizens Legal Defense Fund.

MAG for awareness, avoidance and lawful and wise reaction when you are faced with an imminent threat of serious bodily injury or death to the innocent, without a safe retreat...

And ACLDF because it’s not insurance and they are completely up front with the money in the fund and the authorization board is a group of well known and imminently qualified 2A proponents and educators.

Plus, subscribers get hours of training as a benefit of membership.

pilot25 said:

Be careful on how they market their insurance. At first glance of your link I was excited to see changes. However, diving a little deeper, since you challenged me, I see they are underwriting themselves via a separate company. That is quite an end around.

This is what I found in 10 minutes of research:

NRACarryGuard is LocktonAffinity "administers"

USCCA is self capatilized. They state their policies are covered by DeltaDefense, LLC but that is just a marketing company established by USCCA.

CCWsafe is similar to USCCA but really makes it convoluted. Their "underwriter" is "Captive Insurance Company" established by CCWsafe. Which is essentially themselves. Re-insured by Port Royal Insurance which means they know they don't have the capital for a major payout. So they are insuring themselves. So you need to really see what Port Royal Insurance will cover "2Ainsurance" as CCW calls it. I'm not going to research that deep. It shouldn't be that hard to see their capitalization capability. PortRoyal is a private company that also doesn't disclose their capitalization.

I did a deep research a couple years ago and it was difficult to see how these companies were capitalized so I gave up. I have not looked closely at Lockton Affinity since NRA announced their insurance but I know they are just brokers who provide administration. I've had to deal with them, years ago, when I volunteered for Habitat for Humanity. They also administer "insurance" for HFH but they just shop the policy to actual insurance companies. So I'm not sold on CarryGuard either. I cannot find out who the final party is.

It is very difficult to see what the actual potential coverage is with these companies. They can tell you they will cover up to XXXX dollars but their actual ability to do such a thing is in serious doubt.

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****The above is actually a very good post. I've been using my insurance broker for some time for my primary home as well as outside real estate investments, my cars, and other assets. He's a broker for a well known, well established and well capitalized company that is publicly traded and audited by one of the big 4 accounting companies (PWC). The company does not have to resort to the games with respect to capitalization or trying to obfuscate their financial strength for a potential big payout as seems to be the case with several of the companies mentioned in this thread.

Anyway, I asked my broker a bit about this after also looking into CCWsafe, USCCA and another company that advertises these type of services to the CCW, firearm owning public. My brokers take (he doesn't offer CCW insurance..and though he owns firearms and is in my IWLA chapter, doesn't carry this type of insurance..) is that re-insurance is quite common even among larger companies, but as the above poster mentioned, it seems a bit odd to use multiple layers of "companies" that are essentially being started by the same company to try and perhaps show financial strength when who knows what their actual ability to cover an *actual* serious loss might be, because the final paying party is not easily discerned. It almost seems like the front company knows they can't handle a big payout or God forbid, multiple big claims so they are essentially paying someone *else* insurance to insure against loss from a potential big claim. It's not readily possible to identify from the website marketing who is backing all of this up.

Again, if you feel this is a valuable product to your individual needs and circumstances, please take advantage of the service. That's the essence of the free market system. After spending a bit of time looking outside of the company website, which anyone can do with a bit of free time, this service does not seem appropriate for my current needs given the cost/risk vs potential benefit, given the exceedingly remote chance that I will be involved in a defensive shooting situation at home or when carrying. I do have good health, homeowners, car, life, and an umbrella policy as well to cover more likely claims against me or my property. Your needs may be different.

2 million of umbrella coverage is cheap.

THier said:

2 million of umbrella coverage is cheap.

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U can use umbrella coverage for a criminal defense proceedings and to pay out civil judgments?