What is a business owner for a handgun carry permit in MD?

Chaim · Aug 14, 2019

Some other threads here got me thinking...

It used to be that only a cash business could get you a carry permit (or at least that was the conventional wisdom). Now, I'm seeing posts that suggest just owning a business can be enough to get a permit. Is that true?

If so, I'm wondering if the things I'm considering would count...

I am in need of extra income to supplement my teaching salary for a while after some massive bills this summer (moving, car expenses, expensive dental work) and I'm still financially recovering from a huge car repair bill last summer.

I'm thinking about driving for Uber and Lyft. Either way you are legally self employed as an independent contractor. You are definitely putting yourself in more risk than the average person since you are allowing strangers into your car (and possibly at some odd hours, though since my work is near the airport, I plan to try to mostly drive to and from the airport). Does anyone have experience with driving for Lyft and/or Uber qualifying?

Some years back I sold drop shipped goods through Ebay. It can be done with little overhead and just a few hours a week if it is just a sideline business. If I jumped through all the hoops (business license) to make it official with the state of MD, even though every penny would be through Paypal or another credit card service, if I did a drop ship retail business through Ebay or Amazon again, would that be able to qualify?

MD always seems to want to throw as many obstacles as possible in the way of gun owners generally, and definitely in front of those who want to carry, so it seems like these options would be too simple. However, some of what I've been reading online lately seem to suggest that the second would probably work, and the first may even be enough. Anyone here with personal experience (or at least know someone directly) with MD permits in either of the above situations?

Occam · Aug 14, 2019

The other threads you're probably reading address the what-is-a-business stuff pretty thoroughly. Specifically in response to your comment, though: don't the Uber and Lyft contracts explicitly forbid contracting drivers from being armed while driving? And, I don't believe they allow you to contract with them as a business entity, but rather as an independent contractor, personally. The MSP wants to see you form a business, and see activity in a business checking account. Payments from Uber and Lyft don't flow to MyTinyDrivingCompany LLC, but to John Doe.

The eBay type stuff has more prospects. You could do that as an LLC or a sole proprietorship with a trade name and business checking. But if you don't show actual business activity with income flowing through to your tax filings, you're not going to get anywhere with MSP calling it a business.

miles71 · Aug 14, 2019

Call the MSP and ask them. I have never had to show any checking account activity. If your a sole proprietor save some cancelled checks to show income.

It's going to be interesting to see what the MSP does to qualify someone as a business. I also think it would be silly of them to make the policy change THEY made to complicated. Call licensing and ask.

This forum is filed with good intentions but sometimes not accurate information.

TD

Biggfoot44 · Aug 14, 2019

We have had reliable reports from lots of people about what and how much documentation they provided to MSP . And the answers are all over the map at any given moment . Almost as if each individual Trooper/ Investagator makes it up on the spot .

But frequently heard from MSP @ HPRB , is statement to the effect of " We requested XYZ from the Applicant , and applicant didn't , so we considered him/ her Non- Cooperative , and thereby denied them ."

Occam · Aug 14, 2019

Biggfoot44 said:
We have had reliable reports from lots of people about what and how much documentation they provided to MSP . And the answers are all over the map at any given moment . Almost as if each individual Trooper/ Investagator makes it up on the spot .

But frequently heard from MSP @ HPRB , is statement to the effect of " We requested XYZ from the Applicant , and applicant didn't , so we considered him/ her Non- Cooperative , and thereby denied them ."

Right! I see people reporting that they had no need to provide (for example) checking account activity. My interview-phase investigator was only barely interested in the accounting/paperwork side of business activity. But when he kicked it up to the LD, the next guy to handle my application wrote to me requesting a lot more signs of activity, tax details, etc. Explicitly said that if I didn't provide it, I would be denied. I provided it, had permit a few days later. Obviously SOP stands for "Subjective Opinion Protocol."

Docster · Aug 14, 2019

For a few bucks form an LLC. You'll have some legal protection, tax breaks and for MSP, a business

Jaybeez · Aug 14, 2019

Docster said:
For a few bucks form an LLC. You'll have some legal protection, tax breaks and for MSP, a business

Its costs $300 per year to keep a LLC in Maryland. A sole proprietorship costs nothing. If you have no liability go sole proprietorship.

roadking · Aug 14, 2019

Jaybeez said:
Its costs $300 per year to keep a LLC in Maryland. A sole proprietorship costs nothing. If you have no liability go sole proprietorship.

This makes sense, but to a layman (ie - a cop) I would think an LLC would appear much more official than a person running a business as a sole proprietorship. Especially if you’re forming a new entity. A sole prop could appear to a layman as a facade - created just to appear as a business. If you have a real business, incorporate it. You will always have liability. For example, driving to the bank to deposit a check, or to the post office to mail something, or to,a customer to deliver something. Get in a car accident while conducting business and your business (you, if you have no corporate liability protection) is open to civil suits. Better to have the shield.

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Stoveman · Aug 14, 2019

roadking said:
This makes sense, but to a layman (ie - a cop) I would think an LLC would appear much more official than a person running a business as a sole proprietorship. Especially if you’re forming a new entity. A sole prop could appear to a layman as a facade - created just to appear as a business. If you have a real business, incorporate it. You will always have liability. For example, driving to the bank to deposit a check, or to the post office to mail something, or to,a customer to deliver something. Get in a car accident while conducting business and your business (you, if you have no corporate liability protection) is open to civil suits. Better to have the shield.

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And just like that you managed to disparage two groups of people.

Well done, I'm sure your parents are proud.

danb · Aug 14, 2019

roadking said:
This makes sense, but to a layman (ie - a cop) I would think an LLC would appear much more official than a person running a business as a sole proprietorship. Especially if you’re forming a new entity. A sole prop could appear to a layman as a facade - created just to appear as a business. If you have a real business, incorporate it. You will always have liability. For example, driving to the bank to deposit a check, or to the post office to mail something, or to,a customer to deliver something. Get in a car accident while conducting business and your business (you, if you have no corporate liability protection) is open to civil suits. Better to have the shield.

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There are about 357 reasons why you are wrong, like taxes and financing. But are you saying cops are dumb and dont understand business?

Ammo Jon · Aug 14, 2019

roadking said:
This makes sense, but to a layman (ie - a cop) I would think an LLC would appear much more official than a person running a business as a sole proprietorship. Especially if you’re forming a new entity. A sole prop could appear to a layman as a facade - created just to appear as a business. If you have a real business, incorporate it. You will always have liability. For example, driving to the bank to deposit a check, or to the post office to mail something, or to,a customer to deliver something. Get in a car accident while conducting business and your business (you, if you have no corporate liability protection) is open to civil suits. Better to have the shield.

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Sole proprietorship with a CCW here. As long as MD gets their money they don’t care. People are really overthinking this.

Xshot · Aug 14, 2019

For those of us with an LLC, what kind of paper trail do we need financially? Know it's all over the place, but worst case scenario, what would the MSP request?

EdHershon · Aug 15, 2019

If anyone has any questions regarding this, please contact me at my office, Hershon Legal, LLC www.HershonLegal.com

fabsroman · Aug 15, 2019

Jaybeez said:
Its costs $300 per year to keep a LLC in Maryland. A sole proprietorship costs nothing. If you have no liability go sole proprietorship.

This right here. Unless you need the limited liability (e.g., from the acts of employees, from business contracts that you might end up breaching), then there isn't much reason to form an LLC.

A sole proprietor receives the same tax breaks as a LLC owner. In fact, a single member LLC can be seen as a disregarded entity and treated as a sole proprietorship, thereby filing a Schedule C as part of a Form 1040 personal return, just like a sole proprietor. It gets complicated with the S Corp election or when there is more than one member. So, to sum it up, no tax benefit from creating an LLC, other than to deduct the $300 yearly filing fee, but you only get to recoup a portion of the $300 you paid out.

roadking · Aug 15, 2019

Stoveman said:
And just like that you managed to disparage two groups of people.

Well done, I'm sure your parents are proud.

No, I didn’t. Sensitive, much? I love how everyone is always looking for the argument in every discussion. You must be a hoot at dinner parties. Read it again. I typed it slowly, so people like you could read it and understand it. Read what I’m saying, not what you imagine I said.

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roadking · Aug 15, 2019

Ammo Jon said:
Sole proprietorship with a CCW here. As long as MD gets their money they don’t care. People are really overthinking this.

Agreed. I didn’t say you wouldn’t get a CCW as a SoleP. My point was that in light of the recent policy change, a newly formed entity that’s a SoleP *may* generate a few more raised eyebrows than and LLC or S Corp. A hastily formed SoleP may appear like a facade, made just to try and get a CCW.

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Stoveman · Aug 15, 2019

danb said:
There are about 357 reasons why you are wrong, like taxes and financing. But are you saying cops are dumb and dont understand business?

roadking said:
No, I didn’t. Sensitive, much? I love how everyone is always looking for the argument in every discussion. You must be a hoot at dinner parties. Read it again. I typed it slowly, so people like you could read it and understand it. Read what I’m saying, not what you imagine I said.

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I was right the first time and was not the only one to pick up on it. And yes, passing bad information in these types of threads is a pet peeve as there is already plenty of BGOS to go around.

Maybe the rice cooker thread is more your speed.

fabsroman · Aug 15, 2019

roadking said:
This makes sense, but to a layman (ie - a cop) I would think an LLC would appear much more official than a person running a business as a sole proprietorship. Especially if you’re forming a new entity. A sole prop could appear to a layman as a facade - created just to appear as a business. If you have a real business, incorporate it. You will always have liability. For example, driving to the bank to deposit a check, or to the post office to mail something, or to,a customer to deliver something. Get in a car accident while conducting business and your business (you, if you have no corporate liability protection) is open to civil suits. Better to have the shield.

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Yeah, lots of wrong here too. You, personally, are always liable for your own acts. So, if I have an LLC as a business entity and I personally get into an auto accident while conducting business, then both the business assets and my personal assets are on the hook. If an employee of mine gets into an auto accident while conducting business, then only my business assets are on the hook. That is what so many people do not understand about a corp, LLC, limited partnership, etc. The entities do not insulate the tortfeasor from personal liability for his/her own acts.

Now, I am sure that there will be plenty of people that create an LLC, corp., etc. as a facade in an attempt to obtain a CCW license. I am guessing that is why MSP is asking for something more, like bank records, financials, tax returns, etc. Anybody can create an LLC for real estate investment purposes, etc., but if there is no activity through the LLC, are they really a "business owner" or have they just created a shell company?

roadking · Aug 15, 2019

Snapper · Aug 15, 2019

A quick question if I may for those of you who have answered many questions here already: My wife and I run a legit business in MD. The business is an LLC that we put in her name, but we file it on Sched C of our joint tax return. Can I also apply as a "business owner" for a CCW, though the LLC is just in her name?

What is a business owner for a handgun carry permit in MD?

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