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Old Yesterday, 02:04 PM #901
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Originally Posted by camo556 View Post


12 days to.. Christmas?
Hmmm... not yet. The Supreme Court of MDS is not finished arguing the case.
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Old Yesterday, 02:07 PM #902
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Originally Posted by jcutonilli View Post
You stated
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Your argument here amounts to the claim that governments never violate the "common use" test
You followed up by saying

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... your claim amounts to that. Which is to say, it logically is the equivalent of that, even if you didn't say it directly
I even tried to explain why the original claim was incorrect.

Since you believe the first statement to be logically equivalent, I thought it prudent to point out that you were not actually using logic to make the statement.
Hrm, well, I thought the argument you were making was that the government wouldn't ban weapons in "common use", by way of a perhaps rhetorical statement:

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Originally Posted by jcutonilli View Post
If machine guns were really commonly used, why would the government prohibit them. There would be no support to do that. The reason the law was able to pass was because the were not commonly used.
I took that statement and ran with it. Did you really mean to state the above in the way you did? Because I extended it to any commonly used weapon, i.e., if a weapon is commonly used, why would the government prohibit it. And I did so because I can see no reason you would say the above of machine guns and simultaneously expect it to not apply to all other commonly used arms.

If your argument here isn't that the government wouldn't ban weapons in common use, why did you state the above in the first place? You were clearly attempting to make a point, but it's now unclear what that point was. Please elaborate.
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Old Yesterday, 06:55 PM #903
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Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
Hrm, well, I thought the argument you were making was that the government wouldn't ban weapons in "common use", by way of a perhaps rhetorical statement:



I took that statement and ran with it. Did you really mean to state the above in the way you did? Because I extended it to any commonly used weapon, i.e., if a weapon is commonly used, why would the government prohibit it. And I did so because I can see no reason you would say the above of machine guns and simultaneously expect it to not apply to all other commonly used arms.

If your argument here isn't that the government wouldn't ban weapons in common use, why did you state the above in the first place? You were clearly attempting to make a point, but it's now unclear what that point was. Please elaborate.
It was meant to understand why the government was banning arms that are supposedly in "common use". Bans (no use) and "common use" tend to be opposites and not associated together.

The political process certainly can be used to determine if anyone really cares if the particular arm is banned. It certainly does nothing or says anything about what the government is doing with the arm. The government certainly does ban certain arms for certain people but allow them for government employees for use in society.

If arms are truly in "common use" then the government should not ban them. The government does things it shouldn't however.

Heller seems to suggest that you should not look at just a military use to justify "common use". It suggests that how society uses them is what qualifies as "common use". I believe police use of arms should qualify as a way to demonstrate "common use".

Machine guns seem to be in a grey area. While they are in use, are they really in "common use" because most police don't use them.
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Old Yesterday, 09:22 PM #904
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Originally Posted by jcutonilli View Post
Machine guns seem to be in a grey area. While they are in use, are they really in "common use" because most police don't use them.
Thirty years ago, that would have been true. With the widespread adoption of patrol carbines in lieu of shotguns, and the routine issue of submachine guns to SWAT teams, I'm not sure that is the case any longer.
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Old Today, 04:08 AM #905
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Originally Posted by Mike OTDP View Post
Thirty years ago, that would have been true. With the widespread adoption of patrol carbines in lieu of shotguns, and the routine issue of submachine guns to SWAT teams, I'm not sure that is the case any longer.

And since there are over 500 to thousand or more,I am guessing, SWAT Teams in the US,wouldn't that be sub guns are "in common use"?
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