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  • andy41567

    Active Member
    Oct 1, 2018
    176
    So I bought my first ar15 and I got just an entry level Stag Arms 15 m4. I was looking to do just a little upgrading to it, like the grip, the charging handle and any other suggestions you guys with more experience may have. I am not a professional shooter and not looking to break the bank. I am very new to the platform so I would just like a little help. I don't know what fits and what doesn't. Thanks.
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    Toss a picture up so we can see what you're working with. Probably the best advice is to first invest in training/range time. You can specialize an AR towards many different directions with different parts. As you shoot it more, you'll better be able to identify shortcomings of what you have, and then look for a part that better meets your needs.

    Otherwise, you'll probably end up spending a lot more money by buying parts, using them, and then replacing them with something that better suits your needs down the road.

    Look at the raptor charging handle, a geisele trigger of some kind, free float rail of some kind, and optic of some kind as common "upgrades". A sling(2 point are great, I like the magpul 2 to 1, but Vickers slings are solid too) and a weaponlight are also good additions.
     

    andy41567

    Active Member
    Oct 1, 2018
    176
    OK thank you. I have put 500 rounds down range of 5.56 the day I got it trying to use the open sights and adjust them. Off of another recommendation I ordered a cheap red dot optic from Field sport hoping I will have better lunch with that shight.
    Here is a pic of what I am working with.
     

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    omegared24

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 23, 2011
    4,747
    Ijamsville, MD
    Ammo and range time.

    Aside from that I would invest in an education and proper tools to gauge and upgrade yourself. Unfortunately, you're going to have to check any parts you get due to quality control issues with many manufacturers.
     

    Bountied

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 6, 2012
    6,893
    Pasadena
    If it were me, the first things I would do are,

    Magpul handguard and buttstock,
    Hogue grip
    Larue MBT trigger
    Red dot, Bushnell trs 25 or Sig Romeo 5
    Folding rear sight

    As you try new things you will create a preference. My first AR has been completely rearranged and modified. I think the only original part is the lower. Now I just build mine so I don't collect extra parts. I have a legal box full of AR parts that are take offs.
     

    Bountied

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 6, 2012
    6,893
    Pasadena
    Thank you guys for all the help.
    I am doing a lot of research and yes a lot of education!

    For the magpul hand guard... Is this the right one for my AR pictured above
    https://www.magpul.com/products/moe-sl-hand-g

    You don't want the SL with your front sight unless you plan to cut off the sling loop, also you need a triangular delta ring.

    If your gun has a carbine length gas tube with standard A2 front sight, then you want this

    https://www.magpul.com/products/moe-mlok-hand-guard-carbine-length-ar15-m4
     

    GuitarmanNick

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 9, 2017
    2,221
    Laurel
    I wish you better luck with a Field Sport red dot than I had. They are not robust enough for anything but Airsoft IMO. I have had good luck with SightMark red dots. I have two and they hold zero and are supposed to stand up to the recoil of a .50 caliber rifle. Can't beat the lifetime warranty, either.

    As for adding a grip, there are mounts that attach to the bottom hand guard that you already have which would enable you to mount a grip.

    Perhaps something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Fast-Dealz-S...=1539022390&sr=8-4&keywords=ar15+forearm+rail
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    Expanding on my earlier point, imagine that you have a vehicle of some kind and are looking at upgrading it. You should have a performance goal in mind for a specific application before planning upgrades. If you toss random popular upgrades you may do something like people that buy a truck and then slam it to the ground with 20 inch rims and low-pro tires...wonderful, now it sucks at everything. A rifle that's built around long-range precision will have different components than one build for in-close fast cqb stuff...and they both may be different from one made for sport. Just for optics, a red-dot is great for up-close speed, but something 1-8 power may be better for 3-gun...while something higher in magnification or a fixed 10x would be better for distance.

    So what do you hope to do with the gun? If you have a narrow, specialized application, then it'll be easy to narrow down "upgrades" towards that application. If you want something that's jack of all trades, then that'll be different.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    Stag barrels are rarely 5.56, even though they are marked that way. They are often headspaced to .223 specs and not 5.56 specs. Shoot .223 in the gun unless you have it checked with proper headspace and throat gauges.


    Stag often has issues with the torque applied to the barrel nut, so if you plan to replace the handguard it may have to be cut off.

    All of the issues with a Stag can be fixed by a competent armorer or smith. Problem is many people who think they know the AR really dont know what they dont know. AR's are not legos contrary to what people say. They have to be put together properly to get reliable performance.

    A stag for the most part will be a blaster, but dont expect it to be tack driver or a hell and back gun without some work.
     

    andy41567

    Active Member
    Oct 1, 2018
    176
    OK lots to take in

    No I do not want to cut the front sight off.
    So I need to order the shorter hand guard!

    And I might need to cut the stock one off. So the barrel nut is the bigger collar at the back of the hand guard. Does that untwist and pull back?
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    OK lots to take in

    No I do not want to cut the front sight off.
    So I need to order the shorter hand guard!

    And I might need to cut the stock one off. So the barrel nut is the bigger collar at the back of the hand guard. Does that untwist and pull back?

    You pull back to release the standard handguard pannels.

    If you plan to replace the handguards buy a floated rail. You can keep the FSB and install a longer rail. Centurion makes them.

    Good idea to keep the front sight. It's more rugged than a rail mounted front sight.

    Daniel Defense MK16 rail also has a cutout for the front sight but it's quite expensive $500.00
     

    andy41567

    Active Member
    Oct 1, 2018
    176
    OK great now I understand.
    I wanted to at least upgrade the handguard so I could add a vertical hand grip and that is probably as far as I will go for now. I will just work on shooting, shighting it in and making sure it is reliable. I do have quite a few gunsmith in my area. But like you said I need to find one that is good and know the AR.
     

    andy41567

    Active Member
    Oct 1, 2018
    176
    OK yes that all makes sense.
    So I am looking to use the AR for CQB and up to 50 yards maybe even 100 but I am not sure I have the skill set for that. I guess with lots of practice I could be very good at that distance but correct me if I am wrong. But would we not cross the line of how the rifle would be setup if I am going to shoot at that distance all the time. So with that said I would be setting it up for more like 50 yards and less.

    I ordered the handguard cause I wanted to mount a vertical grip close to the magazine stock. It feels very comfortable there for me to hold.

    The charge handle was simply for my big hands. The stock one was just to small.

    The red dot... Yes I will be honest... I did that cause I thought it was cool. I probably should learn first with the open sights then go to optics.

    I have not changed anything else.

    I would like to get bigger magazines but I am unclear of the law on them right now since I am in MD. So i am researching that now.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    OK yes that all makes sense.
    So I am looking to use the AR for CQB and up to 50 yards maybe even 100 but I am not sure I have the skill set for that. I guess with lots of practice I could be very good at that distance but correct me if I am wrong. But would we not cross the line of how the rifle would be setup if I am going to shoot at that distance all the time. So with that said I would be setting it up for more like 50 yards and less.

    I ordered the handguard cause I wanted to mount a vertical grip close to the magazine stock. It feels very comfortable there for me to hold.

    The charge handle was simply for my big hands. The stock one was just to small.

    The red dot... Yes I will be honest... I did that cause I thought it was cool. I probably should learn first with the open sights then go to optics.

    I have not changed anything else.

    I would like to get bigger magazines but I am unclear of the law on them right now since I am in MD. So i am researching that now.



    At 50yd or less with a little coaching and practice, you will have no issues hitting a 6” group with iron sights using factory ammo.

    A decent red dot is nice but not a necessity at 50yd or less.

    To answer your question about magazines, you are legally allowed to possess magazines over 10rounds but you Must purchase or take possession out of the state. Take a trip up to the next York PA or Chantilly VA gun show and you can purchase 30 round mags for close to $10ea.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    OK great now I understand.
    I wanted to at least upgrade the handguard so I could add a vertical hand grip and that is probably as far as I will go for now. I will just work on shooting, shighting it in and making sure it is reliable. I do have quite a few gunsmith in my area. But like you said I need to find one that is good and know the AR.

    Free floated and has the FSB cutout, just have to scroll down to it.

    Strike Industries Mega Fins G2 13.5" FSP-C $150.00
    https://www.strikeindustries.com/sh...guard-rail-g2-7-9-10-12-13-15-12-5-fsp-c.html

    1_11_1.jpg

    12_41.jpg

    13_32.jpg
     

    Kicken Wing

    Snakes and Sparklers
    Apr 5, 2014
    868
    WASH-CO
    York gun show is coming up on October 27 and 28 (1000 tables). If you decide to go get some mags, you will not be disappointed. This is one of my favorite shows outside of the Chantilly, VA show (1300 tables) which does not happen again until November 16 - 18. Another option for purchasing magazines is simply drive to a store outside of MD to make your purchase which is 100 percent legal. You will surely get a better deal at one of the larger gun shows though if you can hold out. I hope that you are having fun with your new AR!
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    OK yes that all makes sense.
    So I am looking to use the AR for CQB and up to 50 yards maybe even 100 but I am not sure I have the skill set for that. I guess with lots of practice I could be very good at that distance but correct me if I am wrong. But would we not cross the line of how the rifle would be setup if I am going to shoot at that distance all the time. So with that said I would be setting it up for more like 50 yards and less.

    I ordered the handguard cause I wanted to mount a vertical grip close to the magazine stock. It feels very comfortable there for me to hold.

    The charge handle was simply for my big hands. The stock one was just to small.

    The red dot... Yes I will be honest... I did that cause I thought it was cool. I probably should learn first with the open sights then go to optics.

    I have not changed anything else.

    I would like to get bigger magazines but I am unclear of the law on them right now since I am in MD. So i am researching that now.
    That clears things up a bit. The very first thing is to find time/funds for a carbine class. It'll speed up your learning curve in a big way. In the meantime, youtube gun folks can be relatively good for filling in some blanks...



    As for what tool to use for lining up a shot, red dots and open sights are different and the skills don't really transfer. If you're intending on shooting with a red-dot primarily, then start off with a red-dot and learn with it. When shooting using a red-dot, your focus is on the target and you superimpose the red-dot on it. you're only focusing on one distance plane. If you're using iron sights, you've got to pay attention to three planes(rear sight, front sight, and target)...and then focus on the front sight for a clean shot. In a lot of ways, if you learn on iron sights you then have to untrain yourself of a lot of habits to then move on to a red dot. It's good to be proficient with either, but when first learning, pick the one that you're primarily going to be using and develop your initial skill set around it.

    For a cheap optic, check out either vortex or primary arms. They both make pretty high quality and inexpensive red dots. If you ever have a problem, send the optic back and they'll give you a new replacement. Their warranty kicks ass.

    For the the vertical grip, most people are moving away from holding it as a control for the front of the rifle and are moving more towards using a stubby VFG as a hand-stop. When you drive the muzzle towards a target left/right, if the weight is 2 inches over your hand, it tends to want to twist your arm, giving you less control. If you have your hand(especially your thumb) parallel to the bore, then it's a little more controlled. It's where things like the magpul afg came from, or just tossing hand-stops on a hand-guard vs a big vfg.

    Along with those physics is the distance out that you place the front grip. If you put it close to the mag-well, you put a lot of mass forward of your grip, which acts like a lever against your control. If you move your support hand out more, you have better control of the barrel's mass. For proof of concept, have someone stand off to the side of the rifle(unloaded and checked for you safety nazis). Hold close to the mag well and have them move the barrel left and right by grabbing the front of the barrel and pushing/pulling. Try to resist them doing it. The move your arm out to a comfortable soft-lock, high on the bore and have them repeat the experiment. You'll quickly get the idea.

    But yeah, training. You'll need a lot if you're interested primarily in a cqb defensive use of a firearm. Here's some more videos to give you a primer for practice before a class. It also bumps a good light up the list of things to get(check tlr1hl)




     

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