current ATF wait time

GolfR said:

I don't think there is much to stand on here. Paying up front for the suppressor is our choice and forced by the businesses that sell them. If people were unwilling to pay until the approval went through, it would force business to change their models if they wanted to continue to receive the revenue. The government doesn't physically hold the hardware.

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protegeV said:

I'm not saying it IS a due process issue. Just playing along with the hypothesizing.

It's bc this is gun related that it's allowed to stand. Not enough outrage from the masses, only "gun nuts." If the government had an approval process for home buying that involved passing an inspection before being able to occupy the house that took 6-9 months after settlement you think that would fly?
I may be comparing apples and monkeys here, but I'm just saying. We all know the wait times are outrageous.

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fabsroman said:

Were the wait times this terrible prior to the proposal of 41f/41p? I am guessing that the wait times were pretty reasonable prior to the onslaught of applications due to 41f/41p. Kind of like having to wait 30+ days for my AR-15 lower back in February 2013 because MSP had a forever backlog.

I am guessing that once ATF works through the 41f/41p rush with truckloads of Form 1 and Form 4 sent to it, not including what was sent via e-file, then the wait will be a lot more reasonable.

Can't have your cake and eat it too. Cannot expect exemplary performance from the government while having your income tax rate reduced. Pretty sure ATF does not want to hire additional employees under its collective bargaining agreement just to deal with the influx of applications from 41f/41p, because that would mean more taxpayer money going to government employees.

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protegeV said:

Yes, the wait times were pretty bad before 41p. Let's put aside that there shouldn't be a wait time at all and I'll consider 4 weeks "acceptable."

When I bought my first suppressors a couple years ago I waited about 6 months. 41p has pushed that to 9+ months. As I've heard before, I could make a human being from scratch faster than that. Even way back when it was 3-4 months for a form4 was WAY too long.

If you're okay with that, there's something wrong.

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fabsroman said:

I'm not even alright with having to apply to buy a firearm, much less having to apply to buy a suppressor, pay a $200 tax, and then wait 8+ months. I am not alright with any of it. However, I still do not think that the due process clause of the 5th Amendment will apply to this issue. Congress passed some legislation called the NFA, which I hate, but it does not violate the Due Process Clause.

I'm not alright with a Form 4473 and I am definitely not alright with a Form 77R. Buy a gun should be as simple as buying a loaf of bread. If you aren't in prison or a mental institution, you should be able to buy a firearm no problem.

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protegeV said:

They need temp help to get it done faster. Pay 2x the people and accomplish the task in half the time. Or do what they're doing now ( )and pay the same amount of people to do it in twice the time. Money wise it's 6 of one half dozen of the other. Time wise it's

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fabsroman said:

Can they hire temps? How long does it take to train the temps? What exactly is entailed to be hired by the ATF such that these temps can look at confidential information? Do they need a security clearance? Can they just hire bums off the street? Are these "temps" subject to the collective bargaining agreement, and if so, what is the process for letting a temp go after 6 months to a year of work? Is there enough hardware/space for the temps to work?

The devil is in the details.

Hell, I have solutions to everything.

Make illegal immigration illegal and deport all the illegals currently here.
Get rid of income taxes.
Fix all the roads and bridges and pay the companies building them double if they meet certain time/quality constraints. Ah, but where the heck is that money coming from, I just got rid of the income tax. We'll figure it out.
Repeal all the firearms laws.
Make illicit drugs illegal and start enforcing those laws.

The details behind getting things done is the hard part. While on the outside looking in, everything seems simple.

Christ, why the hell does a mechanic take a day to put an engine in? Doesn't it just drop right in where the old one went? A plumber takes half a day to put in a water heater. Give me a break, that sucker just attaches to two pipes. How can it take 4+ hours and cost so freaking much?

Reminds me of a time I drafted a letter for my dad. 3 page letter and he said, "It only took you 10 minutes to type that up, as fast as you type." Mind you, I had to review about 3" worth of documents for his issue, then do about 6 hours of legal research, and then it took me over 2 hours to put the 3 pages together. When I responded and told him I spent over 10 hours on his matter, he could not believe it.

Heck, building a bridge should only take a week, maybe two, unless it is something like the Chesapeake Bay Bridge and then a couple months should be reasonable.

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vgplayer said:

Derailing this a bit has anyone requested FD-258s from the ATF lately? I requested 10 early Feb and haven't received them. Ended up buying some from Silencer Shop so I can complete my order which they already shipped out and should arrive Tues.

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fabsroman said:

With that said, my Form 1 that I submitted on June 21 was just approved last week. So, it was just under an 8 month wait. Hoping I get my other Form 1 stamps, that I submitted on July 4th, approved by the end of April.

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j_h_smith said:

Why would you need fingerprint cards? They aren't something you can do yourself.

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vgplayer said:

I need the cards to take to a fingerprint office. Each responsible person needs to complete 2 cards. I am going to a Livescan location and have them printed onto the cards provided by the ATF.

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j_h_smith said:

Why would you need fingerprint cards? They aren't something you can do yourself.

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ATF Form 4 said:

Photographs and Fingerprints. An individual transferee, except if licensed
as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer under the GCA, must

(1) attach to item 15 of the ATF Form 4, a 2 inch x 2 inch photograph of the frontal view of the transferee taken within 1 year prior to the date of the application and

(2) submit two properly completed FBI Forms FD-258 (Fingerprint Card with
blue lines) with the application. The fingerprints must be clear for accurate
classification and taken by someone properly equipped to take them.

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protegeV said:

I don't think anyone layman who would stare under the hood of a modern car could possibly gripe about the time it takes a professional to swap it out.
Plumbers? Idk.
Lawyers? Don't get me started...


Jk

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fabsroman said:

lol - you are biased about the engine, because that is your line of work. Most people have never opened up the hood to their vehicle. it's just an engine, how hard could it be.

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protegeV said:

Idk. Different experiences I guess. "Most" people I know who aren't car people view car repair of any sort as daunting, not simple.

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j_h_smith said:

You have to be of that mindset. Nothing better than getting out to change the oil, or replace the brakes, to pulling an engine out of a car. I do find that troubleshooting electrical gremlins a bit of a pain any more.

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