1887 Colt Lightning Fiascoe

lee2 · Dec 29, 2015

i know pawn shops are required to run serial #s. aren't 01ffl required also?
perhaps an IP will chime in.

StantonCree · Dec 29, 2015

there are 3 guns listed as stolen with the serial number of the gun in question here. Hotgunz.com doesn't have a single one listed. Better then nothing though I guess.

also before any confusion the other two guns with the same serial number are different guns. I know how to read NCIC haha

Biggfoot44 · Dec 30, 2015

Yes, but a whole bunch of the people entering the s/n of older guns either don't understand the proper model designations, or even which numbers are the actual s/n.

.38 Long Colt (nor .38 Short Colt) isn't related to, or interchangable with .38 S&W. The .38 Long & Short Colts are the direct ancestors of the .38 Special. New mfg .38 LC is available from multiple sources. Primarily used by SASS types either as a lighter load in .38/.357 guns, and particularily for converted '51-'61 family c&b guns or purpose built replicas of Open Top Colts.

RoadDawg · Dec 30, 2015

mpdc4511 said:
there are 3 guns listed as stolen with the serial number of the gun in question here. Hotgunz.com doesn't have a single one listed. Better then nothing though I guess.

also before any confusion the other two guns with the same serial number are different guns. I know how to read NCIC haha

IF the NCIS system is still as it was when I was running checks... There are multiple errors in it. Incorrect data entries left and right which require investigation to confirm the status with the reporting Agencies. Often, folks give wrong information to the Police when they report the firearm stolen or lost. Sometimes data is jumbled during entry. Suffice to say that it happens. And that makes it much more difficult for shops to check on their used items. I always figured it this way... Humans are in the system so expect delays.

A1Uni · Dec 30, 2015

This gun has some VERY unique markings that will make for an easy yes/no decision when MSP shows up.

A1Uni · Dec 30, 2015

ATF regs regarding antiques.

It all comes down to the definition of "readily available."

Since it is just paperwork, we always take the conservative/cautious route to protect ourselves and our customers from future blowback of any kind.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firear...arms-ammunition-gun-control-act-definitions-0

K31 · Dec 30, 2015

zoostation said:
Sill an antique federally and under MD law if pre-1899 regardless of cartridge. The definitions are pretty much identical and both exclude any firearm made pre-1899. The test for modern ammo availability only applies to replicas of antique firearms and whether those are treated as antiques or modern. But like you said never hurts to play it safe.

This was pretty much my understanding. Ammo doesn't come into play if it is pre-1899.

Alea Jacta Est · Dec 30, 2015

Matt, hard luck for Jason. It was a great find and would have been a wonderful collectors piece. Lots of history there. Would have seeded many conversations I'm sure.

Jason and Roscoe, sitting in a tree...

How badly he wanted the old gat; still wasn't meant to be.

The gun from Rhode Island marked DC MPD;

Not for our man Jason, no siree.

zoostation · Dec 30, 2015

A1Uniform said:
ATF regs regarding antiques.

It all comes down to the definition of "readily available."

Since it is just paperwork, we always take the conservative/cautious route to protect ourselves and our customers from future blowback of any kind.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firear...arms-ammunition-gun-control-act-definitions-0

Again, as long as the gun was made pre-1899 it's an antique regardless of caliber. The readily available ammo test only applies to replicas. I don't blame you for being cautious though, I would do the same thing.

j_h_smith · Dec 30, 2015

Does the report show a date when the firearm was reported stolen? I wonder if this firearm could have it's lineage traced. How many times has it been transferred since it's reported theft date?

Just curious.

StantonCree · Dec 30, 2015

j_h_smith said:
Does the report show a date when the firearm was reported stolen? I wonder if this firearm could have it's lineage traced. How many times has it been transferred since it's reported theft date?

Just curious.

It was stolen in 97' from Ohio......probably gone through 10 hands by now

traveller · Dec 30, 2015

Can a FFL run a check on guns in his inventory ? If yes, the selling FFL should definitely return the money.

The sad thing is there is a good chance that the victim of the theft is deceased and the estate admin doesnt want to reopen 'for that old piece of junk'. In that case this historic piece may end up in the ATF shredder.

A1Uni · Dec 30, 2015

traveller said:
Can a FFL run a check on guns in his inventory ? If yes, the selling FFL should definitely return the money.

The sad thing is there is a good chance that the victim of the theft is deceased and the estate admin doesnt want to reopen 'for that old piece of junk'. In that case this historic piece may end up in the ATF shredder.

Can a FFL run a gun? In MD, no not really.

If you think a gun is hinky, you as a dealer can call MSP and they will check for you, but dealers can't access NCIC to check on their own.

I don't know how it works in other states. In most cases, I would not be inclined to suspect a gun received from another licensee.

StantonCree · Jan 8, 2016

So I spoke to Jason today and the seller will be giving him a full refund. Also there is a very rare chance but he might be able to buy the Colt Back from the owner.

Turns out the owner is a FFL in a small town in Ohio and does gun shows on the regular. In 1997 a store employee stole approximately 50 guns, most of which turned up in Florida not long after. Out of all the guns stolen apparently only two were missing........well now maybe just one.

The good news: Seller totally did a stand up thing and advised that a check would be going out today.

The bad news: No Colt Lightning for Jason

More good news: I found a Model 10 inscribed MPDC and gave Jason the lead to fill his MPDC revolver hole

wait what???

The new revolver is in beautiful condition.

44man · Jan 8, 2016

mpdc4511 said:
So I spoke to Jason today and the seller will be giving him a full refund. Also there is a very rare chance but he might be able to buy the Colt Back from the owner.

Turns out the owner is a FFL in a small town in Ohio and does gun shows on the regular. In 1997 a store employee stole approximately 50 guns, most of which turned up in Florida not long after. Out of all the guns stolen apparently only two were missing........well now maybe just one.

The good news: Seller totally did a stand up thing and advised that a check would be going out today.

The bad news: No Colt Lightning for Jason

More good news: I found a Model 10 inscribed MPDC and gave Jason the lead to fill his MPDC revolver hole wait what???

The new revolver is in beautiful condition.

cool, I was just thinking about this.

lowoncash · Jan 8, 2016

Was the original FFL in Ohio where the gun was stolen reimbursed by an insurance company? How would that affect current ownership? Insurance co or FFL?

traveller · Jan 8, 2016

mpdc4511 said:
So I spoke to Jason today and the seller will be giving him a full refund. Also there is a very rare chance but he might be able to buy the Colt Back from the owner.

Turns out the owner is a FFL in a small town in Ohio and does gun shows on the regular. In 1997 a store employee stole approximately 50 guns, most of which turned up in Florida not long after. Out of all the guns stolen apparently only two were missing........well now maybe just one.

The good news: Seller totally did a stand up thing and advised that a check would be going out today.

Faith in humanity somewhat restored.

If the seller is a FFL, I would say there is a good chance he is willing to sell. Just depends on the price I guess.

StantonCree · Jan 8, 2016

lowoncash said:
Was the original FFL in Ohio where the gun was stolen reimbursed by an insurance company? How would that affect current ownership? Insurance co or FFL?

You know we discussed that but we really don't know the answer to either of those but they are great questions.

rfawcs · Jan 8, 2016

lowoncash said:
Was the original FFL in Ohio where the gun was stolen reimbursed by an insurance company? How would that affect current ownership? Insurance co or FFL?

Regarding the stolen 686 I had, the dealer involved told me if the owner had filed an insurance claim for the revolver, then I probably would have been able to keep it. It wasn't returned to me after, so it was moot.

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