Mike Smigiel's thoughts on Hogan

mpdc4511 said:

If this is the case i formally suggest we get 5000 people to write in “Big Boobz) (with a Z)

5000 votes won’t swing an election but maybe the MDGOP will give us more of what we want.......or maybe we will look foolish

I’m voting for boaty McBoatFace

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You can vote for either of the gun grabbers who denounced the NRA, called for more gun restrictions to be passed by the MGA, and was praised by Moms Demand Action and Everytown for Gun Violence.

CrazySanMan said:

I guess I'm hoping that Maryland voters are more intelligent than California voters, they just need a good kick in the pants to make them open their eyes.

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No large group of leftists, anywhere, has ever changed their entire world view because they lost an election. Look around you, right now. The left lost the 2016 presidential election, and have double - or quadrupled - down on their craziness. Wining convinces them to go even more to left, and losing has them going harder to the left in the sure knowledge that they just hadn't gone left enough in the first place. That's the thing about leftists: they don't ever go right, because the underlying foundation of their entire world view is that there IS no "too far" to the left, and if ever something they've touched didn't end well, it's because they weren't allowed to go left enough. These are the people you think will wake up and start voting to the RIGHT of Hogan. You have to know all of this, which means you really are just trolling from out of state.

CrazySanMan said:

I guess I'm hoping that Maryland voters are more intelligent than California voters, they just need a good kick in the pants to make them open their eyes.

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I can't remember the politician's name but, when a reporter asked him if he thought the people were stupid, he replied, "Well, yes basically they are!".
He was re-elected!

Occam said:

No large group of leftists, anywhere, has ever changed their entire world view because they lost an election. Look around you, right now. The left lost the 2016 presidential election, and have double - or quadrupled - down on their craziness. Wining convinces them to go even more to left, and losing has them going harder to the left in the sure knowledge that they just hadn't gone left enough in the first place. That's the thing about leftists: they don't ever go right, because the underlying foundation of their entire world view is that there IS no "too far" to the left, and if ever something they've touched didn't end well, it's because they weren't allowed to go left enough. These are the people you think will wake up and start voting to the RIGHT of Hogan. You have to know all of this, which means you really are just trolling from out of state.

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It will be interesting to see what happens in the mid-term elections with the Dems pulling a hard left and leaving the moderate democrats wondering what the hell happened to their party.

dist1646 said:

I can't remember the politician's name but, when a reporter asked him if he thought the people were stupid, he replied, "Well, yes basically they are!".
He was re-elected!

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People, individually, are smart.

But one should never, ever underestimate the stupidity of people in large numbers.

Occam said:

... You have to know all of this, which means you really are just trolling from out of state.

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CSM isn't a troll. He's been an active member of MDS for a long enough time for most participants here to get a sense of his views and opinions. He also posts plenty outside the politically oriented subforums on MDS, including on firearms topics. He presents his perspective for the most part without denigrating others.

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teratos said:

.....but mah principles!

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haha, that didn't take long.

fidelity said:

CSM isn't a troll. He's been an active member of MDS for a long enough time for most participants here to get a sense of his views and opinions. He also posts plenty outside the politically oriented subforums on MDS, including on firearms topics. He presents his perspective for the most part without denigrating others.

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You're right! Which makes his urge to tell us here in Maryland that we need to give way and let the socialist win so that the Democrats will all start voting Republican ... all the more ridiculous. Because of course he knows that's not how lefties behave. So, on this topic, he's just stirring the pot for fun, not addressing the actual state of affairs or prospects in Maryland. Not sincerely. Distance from the state probably makes that more tempting, I guess.

Occam said:

You're right! Which makes his urge to tell us here in Maryland that we need to give way and let the socialist win so that the Democrats will all start voting Republican ... all the more ridiculous. Because of course he knows that's not how lefties behave. So, on this topic, he's just stirring the pot for fun, not addressing the actual state of affairs or prospects in Maryland. Not sincerely. Distance from the state probably makes that more tempting, I guess.

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You're obfuscating. You agree he's not a troll and then you say he's stirring the pot for fun.

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ironpony said:

haha, that didn't take long.

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Reflecting a bit on principles, it really depends on your perspective. I don't think anyone here has different goals. We have different ideas on how we go about it. I don't think it is proper to call either side out for "compromising their principles".

teratos said:

It will be interesting to see what happens in the mid-term elections with the Dems pulling a hard left and leaving the moderate democrats wondering what the hell happened to their party.

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I agree. It would be like waking up and finding that the GOP's loudest voices had once again strayed into full-on evangelical mode from years past, and the party started losing power again for the same reasons they did last time that happened. That would make me wonder WTF, too. There are fringes in both camps, obviously. But the Dems' fringes are stealing all their air time right now, and you can watch their moderates, especially in purple spots, trying desperately to buffer it (without much success). Maryland isn't one of those purple spots, so there's no buffering being attempted by the Dems. They're letting it all hang out, and being honest about what they want.

fidelity said:

You're obfuscating. You agree he's not a troll and then you say he's stirring the pot for fun.

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Again: he's not a troll as a member, but on this topic, he's at arm's length in his state, not ours, and stirring the pot for fun. Nobody who has to actually live and work and pay taxes here thinks that voting in a way that helps out the socialist is going to magically pay off in the form of vast swaths of deep blue Maryland suddenly voting to the right of Hogan. Nobody thinks that's realistic or even vaguely plausible. So proposing it as a "plan" is and can only be a bit of mischief for fun. We all have our moments of dark humor, and this is his. He can't vote here, so he's having a no-consequence (for him) hoot on this topic.

Occam said:

I agree. It would be like waking up and finding that the GOP's loudest voices had once again strayed into full-on evangelical mode from years past, and the party started losing power again for the same reasons they did last time that happened. That would make me wonder WTF, too. There are fringes in both camps, obviously. But the Dems' fringes are stealing all their air time right now, and you can watch their moderates, especially in purple spots, trying desperately to buffer it (without much success). Maryland isn't one of those purple spots, so there's no buffering being attempted by the Dems. They're letting it all hang out, and being honest about what they want.

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The fringes of the right are too busy on MDS.......

mpdc4511 said:

..... I’m voting for boaty McBoatFace

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Diet Mt. Dew through the nostrils is painful, especially at 6:45 am

I am leaning toward Shiny McShine.

Occam said:

Obviously the out-of-state game players aren't going to stop playing games in which they have no stake. It's just armchair amusement.

The only (and only marginally) compelling reason to hash through these things is to make sure that drive-by googlers (or very casual users here) and others banging into these threads aren't left only seeing calls to vote against Hogan and thus in support of Jealous, based on some flimsy premises that don't hold up to the sort of scrutiny that most drive-by visitors won't take the time to perform.

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I appreciate your candor.

And to be clear, I didn't want anyone to cease posting, I just saw no real purpose, other than rapscallioness, of which, I highly approve.

fidelity said:

CSM isn't a troll. He's been an active member of MDS for a long enough time for most participants here to get a sense of his views and opinions. He also posts plenty outside the politically oriented subforums on MDS, including on firearms topics. He presents his perspective for the most part without denigrating others.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

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Thank you. I appreciate the kind words.

Occam said:

You're right! Which makes his urge to tell us here in Maryland that we need to give way and let the socialist win so that the Democrats will all start voting Republican ... all the more ridiculous. Because of course he knows that's not how lefties behave. So, on this topic, he's just stirring the pot for fun, not addressing the actual state of affairs or prospects in Maryland. Not sincerely. Distance from the state probably makes that more tempting, I guess.

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Occam said:

Again: he's not a troll as a member, but on this topic, he's at arm's length in his state, not ours, and stirring the pot for fun. Nobody who has to actually live and work and pay taxes here thinks that voting in a way that helps out the socialist is going to magically pay off in the form of vast swaths of deep blue Maryland suddenly voting to the right of Hogan. Nobody thinks that's realistic or even vaguely plausible. So proposing it as a "plan" is and can only be a bit of mischief for fun. We all have our moments of dark humor, and this is his. He can't vote here, so he's having a no-consequence (for him) hoot on this topic.

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Wow. You can't bully me into silence so you call me a troll?

I have stated many times in all these Hogan threads why I continue to fight in Maryland for your gun rights. Just because I can't vote in Maryland, it doesn't mean that Maryland gun laws and elections don't affect me. I do more to fight for Maryland 2A rights than a majority of the MDS members do, and you call me a troll for it.

I've asked you over and over to give me your plan to turn Maryland around and you won't answer me. You plan, at least what I can gather from the few posts when you have some kind of suggestion or substance and aren't just brow-beating me, is to continue with the steady decline and hope that big government, in the form of SCOTUS, will rescue you one day. You try to shut down the voice of anyone who thinks differently than you do. You've attacked me personally six ways to Sunday instead of civilly discussing my plan or proposing your own plan. You continue to regurgitate the fallacy that anyone who doesn't vote for Hogan is actively supporting Jealous, even though I've shown you the election result data time and time again to debunk that claim.You're fixated on two things - (1) that I no longer live in Maryland, and (2) that your personal attacks won't silence me.

In my 5 years on MDS I've never had a problem with a member here. I've never been bullied and called a troll either. I've never put a member on my ignore list. So far, despite the way you treat me, you're still not on my ignore list, but my patience is running out. You're proving yourself incapable of having an honest, open debate about topics. Instead of presenting facts and discussing points and counterpoints, you just want to silence those who don't share your opinion.

Now, if you want to have a civilized discussion about the best way to turn Maryland around, please tell us how you will do that. If your only interest is to ridicule me because I don't live in Maryland, flame away. The decision is yours.

Some of that "out of state troll" may have been aimed at me. I assure you I am not a troll. I left Maryland after living there 20+ years. It was a decision based on more than just 2A issues, i.e. taxes, sanctuary cities/counties, etc. I have support concerns with politicians that do not uphold their oath of office. I will refrain from any more posts regarding Maryland elections. fred55

Occam said:

So, just to be clear:



1) You think that this very deep blue state's GOP will, when faced with their quite centrist candidate losing to an actual socialist, decide that the thing this majority liberal state would prefer over the socialist that won would be an even harder right candidate from the GOP than the one that lost.



2) You think that the voters in this very deep blue state, having rejected a popular and moderate centrist Republican governor in favor of a socialist, will suddenly - in the millions - wake up and, instead of favoring the lefty politics they've embraced for decades and the sensibilities that made them choose as a candidate and then elect generally a socialist... vote instead for a GOP candidate well to the right of the person they rejected for a second term.



Here's the reality: the vastly larger number of liberals and their particularly vocal front line hard-left activists will not wake up one morning and vote for your purity-test-passed conservative. Some GOP primary voters may indeed decide to have a tantrum and choose an unelectable conservative as their candidate - which seems to be all you, as a non-resident, want as you play the Maryland Politics Video Game from afar. But you continue to gloss over the central flaw in your game plan. You've never mentioned the mechanism by which MD's large majority of voters will somehow completely change everything they stand for.



What are you proposing will change the entire value system of most of the voters in the state? Be specific. This reminds me of that ol' dot-com boom era meme where everyone has a vague plan to woo witless investors:



1) Buy a domain name.

2) Build a glossy looking web site.

3) ???

4) Profit!



But instead, you're applying that same hand-wavy strategy to changing the entire world view of liberal voters with your plan:



1) Work to make sure the socialist wins and governs for two terms.

2) Destroy the state's economy, hugely raise taxes, drive productive people and businesses out of the state, harbor international criminals, wreck the state's gun industry, and crush everything possible that's 2A-related.

3) ???

4) Millions of life-long liberals will suddenly support conservative politics (and joyously embrace the gun rights they spent their lives hating!) and restore everything Jealous spent eight years destroying. All of that damage will be undone! Families' estates will be restored, bankrupted businesses will brought back from the grave. Someone who died because they weren't allowed to defend themselves under the "you can't have a shotgun" Jealous regime will be resurrected to enjoy the rest of their happy life. It will be a new dawn in red Maryland, with the huge majority of die-hard liberals realizing the error of their ways, and instead of simply voting for a less insane Democrat next time, it will elect conservative Republicans from there on out and start going to the range on weekends.



That about cover it?

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Boom. Mic drop.


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CrazySanMan said:

Wow. You can't bully me into silence so you call me a troll?

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I haven't once asked for your silence, let alone bullied you about it. I have, though, pointed out what is either a case of fundamentally flawed premises behind your plan ... or what can only be non-serious position. Liberals who reject Hogan for being too conservative will not vote for someone far more conservative. You can wish it, but it's not a serious outlook. Human nature, and abundant history - both recent and long-term, in this state, across this country, and around the world - show that wounded leftists don't soothe themselves and solve their problems by embracing right wing politicians. You have to know this, which is why I can't reconcile that reality with your plan, and assume that on this topic, you're not really serious.

I do more to fight for Maryland 2A rights than a majority of the MDS members do, and you call me a troll for it.

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No, I just think you're not being sincere on this particular topic, because you're steadfastly refusing to expand your take on it to include everything else that a lurch towards socialist state governance would mean to those of us who have to live and pay taxes and run businesses here. You're laser-focused on 2A, and missing the huge damage your preferred outcome represents. It can't be because you're not able to see the bigger picture - you're way too sharp for that. So I can't fathom why you're keeping it out of your discussion, other than deliberately.

I've asked you over and over to give me your plan to turn Maryland around and you won't answer me. You plan, at least what I can gather from the few posts when you have some kind of suggestion or substance and aren't just brow-beating me, is to continue with the steady decline and hope that big government, in the form of SCOTUS, will rescue you one day.

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As mentioned before: do you really consider the Supreme Court to be "big government?" Honestly? Turning to the court to STOP the impact of big-government-minded leftists is the OPPOSITE of embracing "big government." For the first time in a long time we have the prospect of a correctly balanced separation of powers kicking in exactly as it's supposed to in defense of the constitution. Expecting that to make the key difference in a state where those who try to Nanny State us to death isn't "waiting for big government," it's seeing the fruit of having just voted for a moderate, centrist administration (sound familiar?) who - shocking! - is now righting the judiciary ship with textualist jurists in a position to actually deal with this stuff correctly.

You try to shut down the voice of anyone who thinks differently than you do. You've attacked me personally six ways to Sunday instead of civilly discussing my plan or proposing your own plan.

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Repeatedly pointing out where you've got your perception of the state's demographics and inevitable response to a right-wing slate of GOP candidates wrong isn't me trying to "shut down" your voice. I'm trying to open your eyes so you can step back and realize that your carefully cultivated plan for Maryland isn't going to work. Despite lots of people here pointing that out to you, you're sticking to it. Fine! But the level of frustration in response ratchets up (even to the point of wondering if you're now just messing with us) because we who live here will have to live with the consequences of a socialist administration. Not you, us.

You continue to regurgitate the fallacy that anyone who doesn't vote for Hogan is actively supporting Jealous

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I know you can't get past the notion that nullifying votes for Hogan increase the odds of the socialist winning. Your position on that is based on past elections that took place under different circumstances. We (as a nation and certainly as Marylanders) have never been in these circumstances before. The consequences of this race tilting towards socialist governance are so dire that, yes, I'm willing to uncomfortably burn some forum karma to convey what I perceive to be the urgency you're dismissing. I'm not "fixated" on your out of state status, but I'm taking it into account when you dismiss other voices here as being uninformed.

You're proving yourself incapable of having an honest, open debate about topics.

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I couldn't possibly be more honest about this: on this topic (specifically, the risks of steering any votes in a direction that boosts the socialist's odds of winning), you honestly think there's no risk, and I honestly think there is. The fact that you contemplate the benefits of Jealous winning (for our own long-term good, essentially - as it would somehow transform the state's majority liberal electorate into conservatives) suggests that you're not really ruling out the fact it could happen. It's can't happen. It would be a disaster. I don't want to take that chance, and you're willing to risk that happening to those of us who live here. That's what separates us on this topic, and I couldn't be more clear or honest about that.

Now, if you want to have a civilized discussion about the best way to turn Maryland around, please tell us how you will do that.

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Here's the civilized answer (again): we who live here cannot turn Maryland around by voting while the 2A issues are still on the table. The more we make elections about 2A, the more we lose. Period.

By using the courts to remove that topic from the debate over which candidate is best (something which we may finally be able to achieve), we can engage with the lefties on kitchen-table type stuff that may - incrementally, generationally - slowly turn the Titanic away from the lefty iceberg. That's my plan, and has been since first entering this conversation. You consider it to be dishonest on my part, so, sure, I've pushed back.

Boondock Saint said:

Some people, individually, are smart.

But one should never, ever underestimate the stupidity of people in large numbers.

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FIFY

I will vote in the MD General election (too many people died for our right to vote so I will never sit home), and I WILL NOT vote for the communist racist Been Jealous.

I will probably hold my nose and vote for Hogan. Then again I might either vote for myself or Homer Simpson. I am afraid Jealous will turn MD into a 3rd world sht hole and then I will really be forced to move.