the National Reciprocity Act is Dead!
- Thread starter kenpo333
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast
Member Benefits:
No ad networks! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
You need 60 votes for cloture. The constitution says a simple majority is all that is needed to pass in the case of a tie, the president of the Senate (Vice President) casts the tie breaker.
However, the rules of the senate for a century plus is that for cloture (closure of debate on a bill), 60 votes are needed. This was agree on in the rules of the senate a long time ago to do away with actual verbal filibusters as a long time ago you'd literally have senators (often a few, like 5-6) who would for days or weeks tie up senate business with a filibuster. So they created the rule to keep the minority party from tying up senate business completely or a small number of senators from disrupting everything (if debate on a bill is occurring, no other business can be done).
Real filibusters still happen occasionally, but they are mostly for show and usually 1-2 senators who tie things up for a day or two at most. Not weeks.
The "nuclear option" is getting rid of the filibuster entirely. That was done for presidential nominations because the republicans basically tied most of Obama's nominations in to pretzels.
McConnell isn't extending it to everything because he smartly realizes some day they'll be the minority party (in the senate at least) some day and doesn't want to lose all possible political power when that day comes.
PS Oh and because of Senate rules, there is basically a bill a year that they can vote on without the normal cloture rules, just simple majority to pass it, but it requires an adopted budget and it also requires it to be directly financially related with a certain savings. That is what GOP tried to do with the Health Care bill they pushed out back in the fall and failed and then they pushed a CR in this fiscal year which covered them AFAIK, which allowed them to do it for the tax bill. So now for this fiscal year they've shot their wad unless they want to change the senate rules.
Absolutely agreed. As frustrating as it is, the 3/5 rule on cloture is an important thing on moderation. Whether you are a liberal or a conservative, moderate politics is a hell of a lot better than extremes. The minority party having zero influence or power (unless the majority allows it) is a very, very bad thing for politics. Especially since again, no matter which side you are on, political power ALWAYS shifts from one party to another. Usually because one party "goes too far". Now try it with unchecked power and you'd have crap seesawing constantly.
Hey, I am all about encouraging voting (either party honestly, Even if I don't like your politics, I'd rather you be engaged then sitting on the side lines, throwing shade or asking for handouts without being involved).
To be honest, the house is likely lost and the senate has a reasonable chance of being lost too. Things would have to change a LOT between now and November for that to not be true and I suspect it'll only get worse, not better.
That said, fight the good fight. I am not a lay down and die type. Maybe we will get lucky, maybe we won't. Inevitable and likelihood or two different things and if we give up, there is zero damned chance.
alucard0822
For great Justice
So what is to keep Chucky from changing the rules to a simple majority on day 1 if the dems take the senate, nothing. There is so much bad blood, especially if they gain a majority in the senate, they will push basically any rule change they want. Still, ending the "virtual fillibuster" would be a good thing, the 3/5 rule originally ended actual fillibusters, reps taking a stand, holding the floor for days straight, until the majority agreed to shelve a bill, or 60 senators agreed to end debate, and the simple majority could pass it. Now, they just take a quick show of hands backstage and if there aren't 60 votes, the Majority leader won't bother. At least make the bastards stay awake for a couple days straight reading random crap outloud on C-span if the minority wants to stop a bill. Being .gov has turned into America's greatest reality show, why not go all-in, I want to see some creative crap in these fillibusters, like a talent show, don't just talk, earn your place in the spotlight, sing, dance, juggle, maybe a mechanical bull, and a more interesting Sargent at arms, wonder what Turbo from American Gladiator is up to now, set him loose with the tennisball cannon if folks get out of line.
Fox123
Ultimate Member
Chuck won't for the same reason McConnell hasn't.
As much as I want to see National reciprocity passed, the filibuster is one of the last remaining tools the minority can use to protect from the tyranny of the majority. Sure, it sounds nice now when Republicans control Congress, but what happens when Democrats control congress 51-49 and an AWB passes with 51 votes because the minority couldn't filibuster it.
I think the more we chip away at the tools of the minority, as frustrating as it is to see them used against things we care about, the closer we go to pure democracy, where 50%+1 can decide whatever they want.
I think the more we chip away at the tools of the minority, as frustrating as it is to see them used against things we care about, the closer we go to pure democracy, where 50%+1 can decide whatever they want.
- Aug 29, 2016
- 763
Except that Chuckie knows that a few more million third worlders legalized, and they'll have a permanent majority. Once Texas flips (no later than 2024), it's all over.
CrueChief
Cocker Dad/RIP Bella
It's no doubt the Republic as intended is lost. The only hope now is all this "It's my way 100% or nothing" thing can be reigned in. Because if this is how its going to be from now on with all the D's voting for the most part in lock step with their leadership and the same with the R's and no middle ground. Well it will only get uglier and uglier for all of us and sooner or later, more likely sooner will catch up to the whole country.
Just add it to something else they want. DACA.
- Mar 8, 2013
- 6,993
You are forgetting the Dems already changed the rule when they saw fit. They will change it again when they have a simple majority. Especially since the R’s did it to get Garland. The R’s are being naive to think the Dems will honor the 60 vote rule, and are wasting an opportunity they may not have for quite a while. The 60 vote rule was dead the day Schumer changed it for the first time. Pass National Recip now and the Dems will never be able to reverse it in the future. Putting that genie back in the bottle will be met with significant national opposition.
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,137
The only thing worse than both parties in lockstep , the Dems in lockstep, and Reps standing around , half picking their noses , and the other half kissing up to the Dems .
Defense Rifle
Active Member
If the Republicans can win more seats in the Senate this November (which is likely) they can then pass it. The Senate is favorable for several R pickups.
It is not a “dead bill” it just can’t be passed in this Senate at this time, wait after the midterms.
Since House has already passed it, the new Senate can take it up and pass it.
It is not a “dead bill” it just can’t be passed in this Senate at this time, wait after the midterms.
Since House has already passed it, the new Senate can take it up and pass it.
Fox123
Ultimate Member
They have until this December.
Those new senators will not be sworn in until the next congress. Then the house will have to pass it all over again.
It will not have the same support in the house if they know the senate stands a chance of passing it. This is the same government that repealed Obamacare some 100 times, that is up until it actually stood a chance of actually getting through.....
hammer67
Active Member
[Especially since the R’s did it to get Garland.
I let it go first time it was said again so a correction is in order. Merrick Garland was Obama's pick to replace Scalia. Trump nominated Neil Gorsuch and McConnel changed rules to get him approved.
As far as reciprocity, i don't see what difference it would make for us? They are not going to issue us permits and no they arent going to accept my out of state NH permit or someone's out of state UT or VA permit. Everything i have read supports what i just said. Am i missing something?
I let it go first time it was said again so a correction is in order. Merrick Garland was Obama's pick to replace Scalia. Trump nominated Neil Gorsuch and McConnel changed rules to get him approved.
As far as reciprocity, i don't see what difference it would make for us? They are not going to issue us permits and no they arent going to accept my out of state NH permit or someone's out of state UT or VA permit. Everything i have read supports what i just said. Am i missing something?
The House version would. The Senate version would not. If passed by both houses, a conference committee would work out the differences
GolfR
Ultimate Member
The same article is in the NRA weekly newsletter email thing that they send out. My optimism on real action on this in the Senate is dwindling.
Greenshield
Member
Why are we "waiting" for the federal government to allow CCW? The United states Constitution already states that the federal government can't infringe. The fight is at the state level, currently, the MD constitution has no written right to bear arms. This is what needs to be changed. The process to amend the State Constitution needs to be studied and manipulated to suit we gun owners. Marches and demonstrations are good for morale. I have been doing them for years, but they change nothing. Change has to happen at the vocal level, look around the nation and see how groups that were in the vast minority, on certain issues, eventually won the day. We need to emulate that and exploit their tactics. Gun owners are a much larger group, in MD, than any modern niche group (LGBT as an example). This is not a knock at he LGBT group but I use them as an example as what is possible, in a short period of time, on polarizing issues. They don't merely demonstrate, they get pressure on hostile politicians, create wedge issues, and use media to sway support. Is there any possibility we could formulate such a plan?
Users who are viewing this thread
Latest posts
-
Severna Park Elementary School Teacher Accused of Inappropriately Touching Students (12 Viewers)- Latest: welder516
-
-
-
-
Forum statistics
Latest threads
-
-
-
OCMD Third Street Park; “It’s a beautiful park with an ugly name” (8 Viewers)- Started by RFBfromDE
- Replies: 0
-
-
-
Severna Park Elementary School Teacher Accused of Inappropriately Touching Students (12 Viewers)- Started by CrawfishStu
- Replies: 4
-
