HQL lawsuit

esqappellate · Aug 4, 2020

PowPow said:
If one plaintiff is said to have standing, and others are said to not have standing, do the ones that don't have standing get dropped from the case? I think the answer "no".

Every plaintiff is still in the case. The rule is that only one plaintiff need have standing. That is why the court expressly stated that it need not consider the standing of MSI and the individual plaintiffs once it concluded that Atlantic Guns had standing:

“[T]he Supreme Court has made it clear that the presence of one party with standing is sufficient to satisfy Article III’s case-or-controversy requirement.” Bostic v. Schaefer, 760 F.3d 352, 370 (4th Cir. 2014) (internal quotation marks omitted). Consequently, once it is established that at least one party has standing to bring the claim, no further inquiry is required as to another party’s standing to bring that claim. Horne v. Flores, 557 U.S. 433, 446–47 (2009) (declining to analyze whether additional plaintiffs had standing when one plaintiff did); Watt v. Energy Action Educ. Found., 454 U.S. 151, 160 (1981) (“Because we find [one plaintiff] has standing, we do not consider the standing of the other plaintiffs.”).

JerseyMike · Aug 4, 2020

Occam said:
Are you comparing it to an organization that YOU have launched, funded, and recruited members to join in pursuit of an issue that only a tiny number of people in the state actually understand? How many people are members of your group?

I’m simply stating that I am surprised how few gun owners in MD have joined MSI (I have) compared to the number who are active on here. Why haven’t they joined yet is my question.

Occam · Aug 4, 2020

JerseyMike said:
I’m simply stating that I am surprised how few gun owners in MD have joined MSI (I have) compared to the number who are active on here. Why haven’t they joined yet is my question.

1) Because people are often tight on cash and figure other people will take care of it.

2) Because people in Maryland appreciate the sentiment but many feel that anything 2A in a state where the overwhelming majority of voters are affirmatively in favor of total gun confiscation ... is a lost cause.

3) Because "shall issue" is a turn of phrase that means less than nothing to almost everybody.

4) Because some people's first encounter with the topic is other people calling it "weak" and essentially talking them out of supporting it.

esqappellate · Aug 4, 2020

Occam said:
1) Because people are often tight on cash and figure other people will take care of it.

2) Because people in Maryland appreciate the sentiment but many feel that anything 2A in a state where the overwhelming majority of voters are affirmatively in favor of total gun confiscation ... is a lost cause.

3) Because "shall issue" is a turn of phrase that means less than nothing to almost everybody.

4) Because some people's first encounter with the topic is other people calling it "weak" and essentially talking them out of supporting it.

The sad reality is that there are a lot of free riders out there. MDShooters has roughly 20,000 members. Basic membership in MSI is $25. The MSI Board and the Officers spend a huge number of hours defending everyone's 2A rights, members or not. I personally argued this case before the 4th Circuit (see page 2) and wrote a lot of the briefs. Preparing for that argument alone took *many* attorney hours. All for free. Other members contribute an incredible number of free hours to the website and outreach and other activities. So the question I pose to MDShooters members is this: What have you personally done to protect 2A rights in Maryland? Have you even met with your legislators? Showed up to testify? If 20,000 people just participated, we wouldn't have to fight so hard every session of the General Assembly.

JerseyMike · Aug 4, 2020

esqappellate said:
The sad reality is that there are a lot of free riders out there. MDShooters has roughly 20,000 members. Basic membership in MSI is $25. The MSI Board and the Officers spend a huge number of hours defending everyone's 2A rights, members or not. I personally argued this case before the 4th Circuit (see page 2) and wrote a lot of the briefs. Preparing for that argument alone took *many* attorney hours. All for free. Other members contribute an incredible number of free hours to the website and outreach and other activities. So the question I pose to MDShooters members is this: What have you personally done to protect 2A rights in Maryland? Have you even met with your legislators? Showed up to testify? If 20,000 people just participated, we wouldn't have to fight so hard every session of the General Assembly.

Do any attorneys do pro bono work for MSI? I’m MD licensed and would be happy to help with some research/doc review

dblas · Aug 4, 2020

JerseyMike said:
Compared to just the number of members here it seems really weak

Apples to oranges comparison since MDS has members from all 50 states and some international members as well, just not limited to MD.

MSI concentrates on Maryland residents only.

Your comparison fails.

esqappellate · Aug 4, 2020

JerseyMike said:
Do any attorneys do pro bono work for MSI? I’m MD licensed and would be happy to help with some research/doc review

GREAT!. I am MD licensed and work completely pro bono for MSI. A few others are available to chat with on a pro bono basis. So, here is a research task if you want to take it on:
What is the statute of limitations applicable to a state law claim in MD for challenging ultra vires state agency action? Assume that the agency action is continuing and thus has continuous effects but was promulgated more than 3 years ago.
Please feel free to communicate directly with me at mpennak@marylandshallissue.org

dblas · Aug 4, 2020

esqappellate said:
GREAT!. I am MD licensed and work completely pro bono for MSI. A few others are available to chat with on a pro bono basis. So, here is a research task if you want to take it on:
What is the statute of limitations applicable to a state law claim in MD for challenging ultra vires state agency action? Assume that the agency action is continuing and thus has continuous effects but was promulgated more than 3 years ago.
Please feel free to communicate directly with me at mpennak@marylandshallissue.org

Are there things that regular people (Non-lawyer) can research that might help with the case(s)?

esqappellate · Aug 4, 2020

dblas said:
Are there things that regular people (Non-lawyer) can research that might help with the case(s)?

Always looking for potential plaintiffs. Now looking for firearms instructors who may want to file an ultra vires suit against the state police. Same claim that the 4th Circuit held that we lacked article III standing to bring in federal court. That holding does not preclude bringing the same claims in state court.

Clump · Aug 4, 2020

Occam said:
1) Because people are often tight on cash and figure other people will take care of it.

2) Because people in Maryland appreciate the sentiment but many feel that anything 2A in a state where the overwhelming majority of voters are affirmatively in favor of total gun confiscation ... is a lost cause.

3) Because "shall issue" is a turn of phrase that means less than nothing to almost everybody.

4) Because some people's first encounter with the topic is other people calling it "weak" and essentially talking them out of supporting it.

Reading this caused me to (finally!) got join MSI. I guess I mostly fell into number 2. Thanks for the poke, I obviously needed it!

esqappellate · Aug 4, 2020

Clump said:
Reading this caused me to (finally!) got join MSI. I guess I mostly fell into number 2. Thanks for the poke, I obviously needed it!

Welcome to MSI!

Deep Thought · Aug 4, 2020

Great news! I just made a small donation to MSI and challenge everyone else to do the same.

gremlin42 · Aug 4, 2020

I just joined MSI as well after some deserved prodding.

gremlin42 · Aug 4, 2020

dblas said:
Are there things that regular people (Non-lawyer) can research that might help with the case(s)?

Also interested in ways to contribute - not a lawyer but I work in enterprise software and am good at automating tedious manual work. Also good at running my mouth and in person networking.

85MikeTPI · Aug 4, 2020

Also prodded me to renew.. I was definitely a #2 and put blinders on to relocate to PA. After seeing VA fall this year and PA bleeding purple, a fight is a fight is a fight everywhere..

rambling_one · Aug 4, 2020

Off thread slightly - I recently tried to renew my Executive Membership via the MSI web page and apparently was recorded as doing so twice. Anyone have a contact phone number or email for the membership guru? I’d like to confirm I’m up to date without paying twice <g>.

ShafTed · Aug 4, 2020

Try info@marylandshallissue.org

That goes to a number of people and will eventually make it to the correct one.

rambling_one said:
Off thread slightly - I recently tried to renew my Executive Membership via the MSI web page and apparently was recorded as doing so twice. Anyone have a contact phone number or email for the membership guru? I’d like to confirm I’m up to date without paying twice <g>.

rambling_one · Aug 4, 2020

Will do. Thanks.

JoeRinMD · Aug 4, 2020

Thanks for everything MSI does to restore our rights in a state hell-bent on denying them. I went to make a donation, but didn't realize my membership had lapsed. So, I did both...re-upping and making the donation.

JoeR

teratos · Aug 4, 2020

JerseyMike said:
Opinion said only 1100 members, that’s weak :/

I think in 2013 the number was 400’ish.

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