Stripped lower purchases question

rbird7282 · May 15, 2020

Nickberg500 said:
Hm. I've been seeing everyone across MDS say AR-9/AR-10 lowers are cash and carry, I'm a little confused now.

They are cash and carry

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danb · May 15, 2020

This is the advisory that talks about the 77R process for receivers of banned weapons.

This MDSP advisory says its ok to built a lower purchased prior to Oct 1, 2013 into an assault long gun.

Now, if you can build a lower purchased prior to Oct 2013 into an assault long gun, putting an upper on a pre-Oct-2013 lower seems to me to be the same thing.

rbird7282 · May 15, 2020

danb said:
This is the advisory that talks about the 77R process for receivers of banned weapons.

This MDSP advisory says its ok to built a lower purchased prior to Oct 1, 2013 into an assault long gun.

Now, if you can build a lower purchased prior to Oct 2013 into an assault long gun, putting an upper on a pre-Oct-2013 lower seems to me to be the same thing.

Wrong thread

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danb · May 15, 2020

rbird7282 said:
Wrong thread

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yeah, all the threads start to merge into the same questions after a while.

esqappellate · May 15, 2020

Nickberg500 said:
Hm. I've been seeing everyone across MDS say AR-9/AR-10 lowers are cash and carry, I'm a little confused now.

This is tricky. A receiver is defined under both federal and state law as a firearm. So, can you build a AR 10 receiver into a handgun (which takes a 77R)? It is certainly possible (hard to shoot with that much recoil). All it would have to do is meet the definition of a handgun in MD Code Public Safety 5-101(n) ("(n)(1) "Handgun" means a firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.") But there is no specific guidance from the MSP on AR10 receivers specifically, that I know of. That said, the MSP Advisory LD-FRS-14-003 (May 16, 2014) says: "However, the 'stripped' lower receiver, as per the definition above, is still considered a firearm and therefore is subject to the 77R process." That Advisory was in the context of banned assault long guns, but that statement is not expressly limited to such guns, but rather turned on the legal reality that receivers (all receivers) are considered to be firearms as defined by Section 5-101(h). It doesn't have to make sense. This is Maryland, after all. This is NOT legal advice. Folks will have to take their chances on this after consulting their lawyer.

SkiPatrolDude · May 15, 2020

blankford said:
Did you see a price on them?

I paid $115 each for two Spikes lowers from 2A back in February. Had to use my Designated Collector Status to be able to buy them both at the same time.

71Chevelle427 · May 15, 2020

esqappellate said:
A completed lower is either a rifle, or a pistol, or a SBR, depending on barrel length and overall length and whether, in the case of a sbr, it has a stock

FWIW, I've bought a half dozen or so, from 3 different places, and every one I bought as a "complete lower", with a stock or a pistol brace, were sold as "Other".

esqappellate · May 15, 2020

71Chevelle427 said:
FWIW, I've bought a half dozen or so, from 3 different places, and every one I bought as a "complete lower", with a stock or a pistol brace, were sold as "Other".

Ah, yes. The "other" category. This what the ATF says about it:
What does “any other weapon" mean?

The term "any other weapon" means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

SkiPatrolDude · May 15, 2020

Just scored two Aero M4E1 lowers at Continental Arms for $95 each. Apparently they just got about 25 of them (23 now lol). That is great price for them and pretty mind blowing from Continental, who usually marks up their lowers like hell.

Posting in response to the person who asked about pricing on Spikes lowers.

rbird7282 · May 15, 2020

SkiPatrolDude said:
I paid $115 each for two Spikes lowers from 2A back in February. Had to use my Designated Collector Status to be able to buy them both at the same time.

You can buy two at once without the DC letter but then you’d have to wait 60 days before your next regulated purchase.

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Pinecone · May 15, 2020

danb said:
I was under the impression that 556 receivers were 77r (regulated) essentially because "frame or receiver" of a regulated firearm was also a regulated firearm (see section 5-101, definition of regulated firearm and definition of firearm which includes the frame or receiver). So its not because they can be "made into pistols," its because they are the frame or receiver an enumerated firearm on the list.

308 lowers are being treated cash and carry because they are not the lower of any enumerated firearm.

Enumerated firearms on the list are not "regulated" firearms.

They used to be. Now, they are BANNED firearms.

There are no "regulated" long guns since 2013.

esqappellate · May 15, 2020

Pinecone said:
Enumerated firearms on the list are not "regulated" firearms.

They used to be. Now, they are BANNED firearms.

There are no "regulated" long guns since 2013.

That is technically incorrect under section 5-101(r) of the public safety article. Two points. Under that section: 1. Handguns are regulated firearms. 2. And the list of long guns is still in the statute. Now that list of long guns is also banned but they are still all defined by law as “regulated”. It still matters. All those long guns were grandfathered if you possessed them prior to 10/1/13. They are all Still regulated Firearms

RoadDawg · May 16, 2020

esqappellate said:
That is technically incorrect under section 5-101(r) of the public safety article. Two points. Under that section: 1. Handguns are regulated firearms. 2. And the list of long guns is still in the statute. Now that list of long guns is also banned but they are still all defined by law as “regulated”. It still matters. All those long guns were grandfathered if you possessed them prior to 10/1/13. They are all Still regulated Firearms

clarity.

Art3 · May 16, 2020

rbird7282 said:
You can buy two at once without the DC letter but then you’d have to wait 60 days before your next regulated purchase.

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And...apply for and get your DC letter well before the 60 days are up :party29:

SPQM · May 16, 2020

danb said:
I was under the impression that 556 receivers were 77r (regulated) essentially because "frame or receiver" of a regulated firearm

So what happens if I bring a certified upper receiver that is not on the list, i.e.:

5.56 HBAR
7.62x39
5.45x39
300 Blackout?

is that proof that the rifle will be "not regulated"

rbird7282 · May 16, 2020

Art3 said:
And...apply for and get your DC letter well before the 60 days are up

Absolutely!

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Pinecone · May 16, 2020

esqappellate said:
That is technically incorrect under section 5-101(r) of the public safety article. Two points. Under that section: 1. Handguns are regulated firearms. 2. And the list of long guns is still in the statute. Now that list of long guns is also banned but they are still all defined by law as “regulated”. It still matters. All those long guns were grandfathered if you possessed them prior to 10/1/13. They are all Still regulated Firearms

Well, grandfathered ones are still regulated.

But there are no longer any regulated long guns that can be sold or transferred in the MD.

That was what I was trying to say.

dblas · May 16, 2020

SPQM said:
So what happens if I bring a certified upper receiver that is not on the list, i.e.:

5.56 HBAR
7.62x39
5.45x39
300 Blackout?

is that proof that the rifle will be "not regulated"

Once you build it into a rifle, it is no longer "regulated" per discussions with MSP.

esqappellate · May 16, 2020

Pinecone said:
Well, grandfathered ones are still regulated.

But there are no longer any regulated long guns that can be sold or transferred in the MD.

That was what I was trying to say.

But they can be inherited! See MD Code Criminal Law 4-302:

5) the receipt of an assault weapon or detachable magazine by inheritance, and possession of the inherited assault weapon or detachable magazine, if the decedent lawfully possessed the assault weapon or detachable
magazine and the person inheriting the assault weapon or detachable magazine is not otherwise disqualified from possessing a regulated firearm;

hodgepodge · May 16, 2020

OK, is this an area where MSI could work with the State Police to clarify everything, leaving as regulated what is regulated to please the Democrat majority? Just to clarify what is/isn't permitted?

Stripped lower purchases question

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