9mm effectiveness per fbi

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  • Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    Was handed this today as justification for 9mm, rds on target and placement. What do you think? Have you given up your 40s, 45s, 357s?
     

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    Exuberon

    Active Member
    Aug 8, 2017
    158
    Southern Virginia
    Granted higher capacity mags in 9mm is a nice benefit.

    Bonded/jhp 9mm rounds in higher grain (135-147) & +p, can push muzzle velocities near stock .40 & .357 mag ranges to now be more competitive/“equal”. *

    Moreover, these “ high performance” 9mm rounds are at an elevated $ cost making them on par with the other rounds specialized for HD or daily carry ammo.

    Generally speaking, 9mm (115gr) is still a very cost effective (currently cheap) “plinking” round. However .357mag and .40 will give you higher grain projectile selections.

    So IMHO, it is still up to the individual to weigh expected use with pros/cons of bullet hole size, and carry capacity. Do your homework, test ammo with what you shoot and go with what works for you. Variety is the spice of life!

    *https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
     

    Alan3413

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 4, 2013
    16,929
    You know something's wrong with the reasoning or you wouldn't need "justification".

    45 acp FTW.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    Ehhh.

    " Good " 9x19 ammo doesn't suck , and is reasonably effective for intended LE and SD purposes . ( My preferences of " good" and FBI not necessarily the same ).

    ( All other factors being equal ) 9x19 will have less recoil , and with minimal extrapolation lead to better control .

    Ammo less expensive , moreso with practice ammo than premium

    Stop right there , and 9x19 is certainly viable option for an LE Agency .

    BUT , their further efforts to justify that 9x19 is actually better involve large grains of salt . Basically putting lots of weight into the factor of hit percentages, and statemet that " select " 9x19 performs better than" most" .40, .45, .357, etc ammo . I could equally cherry pick that my prefered .45, 10mm, .357mag, etc loads are better than " most" 9mm .
     

    Virgil Co.C

    Active Member
    Aug 10, 2018
    615
    Personal preference. Wouldn’t want to be hit by any of them. Technology in bullets these days I would /am very comfortable with a 9mm. But if SHF I feel I would be grabbing my 45. Shoot my 9 because it’s so much cheaper for me. Just bought one actually. Luv it . Think it’s all in the application of use. Like I said wouldn’t want to be hit with any of them .
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Personally, I don't feel under-gunned with 9mm. I figure the most likely scenario in which I will need my sidearm will be behind my office at night. 2-3 guys. No body armor.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I can't really read the picture but I assume it's the thing that circulated around 3-4 years ago where the FBI explained why it was going back to 9mm. If so then yes I am very much in agreement with it as a policy, and most of the specific reasons are spelled out pretty clearly on that paper.

    I am fine with 9mm and think it largely makes sense from an organizational perspective when one accepts that most pistol cartridges are inadequate and/or unsuitable for one reason or another. That said, for personal use I don't care what anyone else does as long as it makes sense to them. If you want to rock the gold plated Deagle chambered in 50AE, feel free. I personally carry a Glock 19 with two spares when I am in states that allow it. That is because I have tens of thousands of rounds more on g19s than anything else. My presentation, aim, and follow up are all trained to that. Same as the M16/AR family of rifles.
     

    Racer Doug14

    Thread killer
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Feb 22, 2013
    8,003
    Millers Maryland
    I see the greatest advantage of 9mm is higher round count. Then lower recoil for subsequent shots. Energy transfer from larger caliber choices is not enough to tip the balance to them. I have 9mm ,45acp ,40SW and 38/357. If I could carry, it would be 9mm. Then 40SW.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Has .40S&W benefited from powder improvements like 9mm has? If it has, it should be less ghey?
    It has but not as much as 9mm. The specific issue I have with .40 is that it has a relatively narrow window between where most ammo is loaded and dangerously high pressures. The snappy recoil isn't great for people who don't train regularly, which sadly describes most LEOs.

    I will say that Roland Special builds in .40 are pretty sweet. Certain military organizations are onto something with there.
     

    AlBeight

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 30, 2017
    4,384
    Hampstead
    Was handed this today as justification for 9mm, rds on target and placement. What do you think? Have you given up your 40s, 45s, 357s?

    The FBI doesn’t have spell check? What is a “high ting incident likelihood”? Also, “under identical testing conditions, I outperforming” ? Not being on FBI letterhead either. They really wrote this? OK.........:innocent0
     

    Racer Doug14

    Thread killer
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Feb 22, 2013
    8,003
    Millers Maryland
    I got my P229 as red band CPO. It was an LE trade in. I wanted a 229 real bad. The price was good. That's the only reason I have a pistol in .40S&W.
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    The FBI doesn’t have spell check? What is a “high ting incident likelihood”? Also, “under identical testing conditions, I outperforming” ? Not being on FBI letterhead either. They really wrote this? OK.........:innocent0

    There was a report behind this. I don’t know who created what seems a synopsis of the report. (I was at a class today and i normally don’t shoot 9 and haven’t carried one for a year cc. It was interesting to read this and shoot a 226 very quickly putting all rds on steel. Dont know i can do that with 375 sig or 40. But may try tomorrow. It is an easier gun/cartridge to shoot. )
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    The pictured document was an Executive Summary .


    The biggest advantage from an organizational standpoint is the better control .

    By no means bashing , but the reality is most ofc aren't into guns or shooting as an avocation , and most agencies are interested in maintaining the appearance of meeting prevailing professional standards, not having a a rank & file of expert shootists .

    If periodic requalifications can be accomplished minimal direct expenses, and manpower costs for instructors, instructees for remedial training , that would be a great administrative boon .
     

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