How far back do MSP 77r forms go?

ZeroCool · Dec 17, 2018

Hi Everyone,

So my buddy's dad was showing off a Colt 1911 that he purchased new in 82 and, interestingly enough, the MSP 77r forms were in the box.

At the risk of sounding, uh, "younger" I honestly had no idea that the 77r forms went back that far!

So, this raises a few questions that I thought the forum may be able to help with:

What year did the 77r forms actually begin?
Were there additional waiting periods for handguns back in the early 80s? If not, when did they start?
When did handgun "registration" actually start in MD? I always thought the 77r forms were for registration but I also can't imagine MD registering handguns in the early 80s...

My buddy's dad didn't remember the details of his 1982 purchase to answer the above questions and a google search didn't seem to point me in any direction other than the MSP site (which had nothing on the above).

For whatever reason, I thought that the handgun foolishness started in MD in the 90s but now this 1982 dated form 77r has me thrown for a loop.

Any information would be appreciated... inquiring minds would like to know.

Threeband · Dec 17, 2018

Goes back to the mid '60s, before the ' 68 GCA. I think about '66??? Seven day wait goes back to that beginning. The original rational was to allow time for the paperwork to be snail-mailed, not as a "cooling off period."

Until 1996 handguns could still be sold face to face in private transactions with no paperwork.

The record of the 77r transfer is still the only "registration" for handguns here, EXCEPT for the new post 2013 requirement for people moving here from other states to register their handguns.

The registration database, which is really nothing but the entire collection of 77rs, must be full of errors. Not only are there numerous ways for people to legally own handguns which are not "registered ," the database has many guns recorded to multiple owners. If your buddy's dad sells that 1911 to you, it will still be "registered" to him for all eternity, as well as to you. If you later sell it to me, it will forever be "registered" to all three of us.

You do sound young! 1982 wasn't long ago at all: I have underwear older than that. It sounds like you picture the early '80s as some sort of halcyon bygone era of traditional values and common sense. Let me tell you, young whippersnapper, this country went to hell in a handcar long before that. I blame this newfangled indoor plumbing, myself.

rseymorejr · Dec 17, 2018

My Father bought me my first handgun in 1977. The paperwork and waiting period were in effect then for sure.

Batt816 · Dec 17, 2018

Had no clue. I purchased a few hand guns in the early and mid 90s (used) and don't recall any paper work other than a receipt of purchase.

Sundazes · Dec 17, 2018

The 77r went back that far but up to 86 (I think) FTF handgun sales were legal. So the "system" will be full of wrong information. Not to mention, I don't the MSP updates the records.

Batt816 · Dec 17, 2018

Imagine that the "system" could be wrong

ZeroCool · Dec 17, 2018

Threeband said:
Goes back to the mid '60s, before the ' 68 GCA. I think about '66??? Seven day wait goes back to that beginning. The original rational was to allow time for the paperwork to be snail-mailed, not as a "cooling off period."

Until 1996 handguns could still be sold face to face in private transactions with no paperwork.

The record of the 77r transfer is still the only "registration" for handguns here, EXCEPT for the new post 2013 requirement for people moving here from other states to register their handguns.

The registration database, which is really nothing but the entire collection of 77rs, must be full of errors. Not only are there numerous ways for people to legally own handguns which are not "registered ," the database has many guns recorded to multiple owners. If your buddy's dad sells that 1911 to you, it will still be "registered" to him for all eternity, as well as to you. If you later sell it to me, it will forever be "registered" to all three of us.

You do sound young! 1982 wasn't long ago at all: I have underwear older than that. It sounds like you picture the early '80s as some sort of halcyon bygone era of traditional values and common sense. Let me tell you, young whippersnapper, this country went to hell in a handcar long before that. I blame this newfangled indoor plumbing, myself.

Wow, great information! Thank you!

I was born in 1984 and yes, I had this fantasy that Maryland was "normal" when it came to guns in the 80s. I had no idea that the 77r forms and the waiting period went back to the 60s...

And to think that I feel old for remembering as a kid that Sports Authority used to sell handguns.

So the 1911 is likely "registered" to my buddy's dad (who purchased it new) but theoretically, it could have been sold multiple times in that 14 year period (1982-1996) without any change in paperwork (private sale).

Crazy to think how inaccurate the registration database could be...

Threeband · Dec 17, 2018

sundazes said:
The 77r went back that far but up to 86 (I think) FTF handgun sales were legal. So the "system" will be full of wrong information. Not to mention, I don't the MSP updates the records.

Exactly. The records aren't updated. And face to face handgun sales were legal until October 1, 1996. New residents didn't have to register handguns they bought before they came here until October 1, 2013.

The gun control of the 60s was a response to the upheaval and unrest of that period. It part, there was a racist response to the civil rights movement. To this day, the democrat push for gun control includes a racist component. Much of the opposition to concealed carry here in Maryland is based on a racist horror of black residents of Baltimore having carry permits.

Anyway, there never was a time that was "normal," but there was a huge change in the 1960s. If there was a single watershed year of transition it was 1968.

But Maryland was a little bit less freaked out by guns when I and my friends took our rifles to school in the 70s, to go shooting in backyards after school. (We left them in our cars, of course.)

hodgepodge · Dec 17, 2018

MSP has them back to 1645.

They tossed stacks of 'em off the Peggy Stewart in the 1770's.

The British were trying to get the records at Ft McHenry.

Frederick County wouldn't provide copies so Lincoln dissolved the legislature.

Yes, a long time.

Biggfoot44 · Dec 17, 2018

Indeed, the answer is 1966 .

And yes, in 1966 the discussion and Legislative Intent was all about * Cooling Off Period * .

And also yes , FTF ended 1996 .

And in the Nostalgia Dept , back in the day , prime places to purchase handguns included Herman Atlas ( later known as Herman's ), and Montgomery Wards .

Pinecone · Dec 19, 2018

Also Sears.

While there was a cooling off part, the whole release after 7 days, it was based on mail. No email, no faxes back in the 60s.

Biggfoot44 · Dec 19, 2018

No .

I researched the Bill File on this , and the express Legislative Intent was to make people wait 7 days . There was no discussion of the time for MSP to do checks .

Batt816 · Dec 19, 2018

I wonder why someone who already owns a handgun has to wait? If you had bad intent wouldn’t you use something you’ve got instead of buying new?

danb · Dec 19, 2018

Batt816 said:
I wonder why someone who already owns a handgun has to wait? If you had bad intent wouldn’t you use something you’ve got instead of buying new?

Only 3% of maryland gun laws involve facts and logic.

The answer is for the same reason Bloomberg outlawed 64oz Big Gulps: The little people down there cant handle their shit. Control by elites.

Batt816 · Dec 19, 2018

danb said:
Only 3% of maryland gun laws involve facts and logic.

The answer is for the same reason Bloomberg outlawed 64oz Big Gulps: The little people down there cant handle their shit. Control by elites.

So much B.S. I wish someone would just come in and ram some common sense down these a-holes throats...... They actually get paid to make these ridiculous laws!

How far back do MSP 77r forms go?

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