MD W&C For OPM Security Breach

Paladin · Jun 27, 2017

I am a Maryland W&C instructor and I was approached by an interested student asking this question (2 parts)

1. He has some fellow workers at his government office who say they have been granted W&C license because of the hacking of the OPM database and their access to classified information. Does anyone know if this is true?

2. He was also told that if he is denied W&C for any reason that he will be banned for life from any CCW anywhere in the US.

Now I seriously doubt the second because to my knowledge there is no central database except for National Criminal run by the FBI and denial is certainly not a criminal offense.

But I really had not heard of the first part of his question. It seems that being a security risk for the US and having your sensitive personal information spread all over the hacker's universe would be reason. Makes you subject to blackmail, extortion, and other potential bodily and personal injury.

Any knowledgeable person have any information on this.

dblas · Jun 27, 2017

Paladin said:
I am a Maryland W&C instructor and I was approached by an interested student asking this question (2 parts)

1. He has some fellow workers at his government office who say they have been granted W&C license because of the hacking of the OPM database and their access to classified information. Does anyone know if this is true?

Yep, MSP has been granting them, but in some cases, they have been denying them as well, and those cases have been overturned on appeal to the HPRB.

Paladin said:
2. He was also told that if he is denied W&C for any reason that he will be banned for life from any CCW anywhere in the US.

Now I seriously doubt the second because to my knowledge there is no central database except for National Criminal run by the FBI and denial is certainly not a criminal offense.

But I really had not heard of the first part of his question. It seems that being a security risk for the US and having your sensitive personal information spread all over the hacker's universe would be reason. Makes you subject to blackmail, extortion, and other potential bodily and personal injury.

Any knowledgeable person have any information on this.

While there is no nationwide database on CCW denials, many ask if you have been denied a CCW permit in another state or in the state, they are looking for folks that have been denied because they are prohibited, not because they did not meet some arbitrary standard that changes from desk to desk.

Bigfoot21075 · Jun 28, 2017

There are a couple of threads on this, from what I understand yes - the OPM letter COMBINED with an active security clearance AND a letter from the person's security officer will satisfy the Good and Substantial requirement.

As for the second point, absolutely NOT. Simply being denied CCW for any reason holds no bearing on your future acceptance. If they are denied because they are otherwise disqualified then they will not be able to get a permit. The act of being turned down in of itself is not cause for future denial.

Rab1515 · Jun 28, 2017

Bigfoot21075 said:
There are a couple of threads on this, from what I understand yes - the OPM letter COMBINED with an active security clearance AND a letter from the person's security officer will satisfy the Good and Substantial requirement.

Be prepared to fight it every step of the way, and hold MSP to their published SOP. Juditial littering of the G&S statment with phrases from MSP's SOP will help. Some agencies handle confirming a clearance differently, and it is not necessary to get confirmation on letterhead as MSP demands. Talk to your security for what they can do. This document makes the argument alot easier: https://www.dm.usda.gov/ohsec/docs/SEAD 3 Reporting (U).pdf

Bigfoot21075 · Jun 28, 2017

Rab1515 said:
Be prepared to fight it every step of the way, and hold MSP to their published SOP. Juditial littering of the G&S statment with phrases from MSP's SOP will help. Some agencies handle confirming a clearance differently, and it is not necessary to get confirmation on letterhead as MSP demands. Talk to your security for what they can do. This document makes the argument alot easier: https://www.dm.usda.gov/ohsec/docs/SEAD 3 Reporting (U).pdf

THANKS Rabb1515 - I am prepared to take this all the way to the bitter end.

GAL700 · Jun 28, 2017

Paladin said:
I am a Maryland W&C instructor and I was approached by an interested student asking this question (2 parts)

2. He was also told that if he is denied W&C for any reason that he will be banned for life from any CCW anywhere in the US.

Any knowledgeable person have any information on this.

My letter stated I was disapproved not denied. Which does make a difference when applying for a license from out of state.

Rab1515 · Jun 28, 2017

GAL700 said:
My letter stated I was disapproved not denied. Which does make a difference when applying for a license from out of state.

I was "Denied", and then my "Disapproval" was overturned at my informal review...

Mike OTDP · Jun 29, 2017

The OPM breach helps, but you'll need more. It helps to be able to describe why you would be a target, then the OPM breach makes the case that the bad guys can now find you.

fred333 · Jun 30, 2017

Paladin said:
1. He has some fellow workers at his government office who say they have been granted W&C license because of the hacking of the OPM database and their access to classified information. Does anyone know if this is true?

I doubt it, but anything's possible. For the skinny, probably best to contact the Maryland State Police barracks in Baltimore (MDSP).

2. He was also told that if he is denied W&C for any reason that he will be banned for life from any CCW anywhere in the US.

Again, anything's possible, but I've never heard of that before (I'm an MDSP-certified CCW trainer myself). If anyone could answer this (with any authority), it's Andrew Branca (CCW instructor and firearm law lawyer), who wrote "the bible", The Law of Self Defense, which, if you haven't read it, should be your next move. You can reach him via his website.

cool_t_1 · Jun 30, 2017

Paladin said:
I am a Maryland W&C instructor and I was approached by an interested student asking this question (2 parts)

1. He has some fellow workers at his government office who say they have been granted W&C license because of the hacking of the OPM database and their access to classified information. Does anyone know if this is true?

2. He was also told that if he is denied W&C for any reason that he will be banned for life from any CCW anywhere in the US.

Now I seriously doubt the second because to my knowledge there is no central database except for National Criminal run by the FBI and denial is certainly not a criminal offense.

But I really had not heard of the first part of his question. It seems that being a security risk for the US and having your sensitive personal information spread all over the hacker's universe would be reason. Makes you subject to blackmail, extortion, and other potential bodily and personal injury.

Any knowledgeable person have any information on this.

Part 1 is true. In my case at the informal review to remove restrictions I was denied because "clearance holders" were not being "gunned down" in the streets.

So I suggest if denied, and denied at the informal go to the HPRB. I plan to do so.

BeoBill · Jun 30, 2017

Mike OTDP said:
The OPM breach helps, but you'll need more. It helps to be able to describe why you would be a target, then the OPM breach makes the case that the bad guys can now find you.

Cprrect. Be as detailed as possible without veering into FOUO/SBU or Classified. Consult other threads here for successful approaches. This year seems to have gone from "No way" to "Maybe" to "Actually Possible", so prepare well and give it a whirl. Ya gotta play to win!

jbrown50 · Jun 30, 2017

Paladin said:
2. He was also told that if he is denied W&C for any reason that he will be banned for life from any CCW anywhere in the US.

Baloney.

DoD employee here with a TS/SCI. I was denied for a DC carry permit but just renewed my NH permit without a problem. I also have three other permits (FL, UT and VA). There's a difference between being denied because a may issue state wouldn't accept your G&S and being denied because of some sort of mark on your record. Even then you're not necessarily banned for life.

CypherPunk · Jun 30, 2017

MD W&C For OPM Security Breach

First, there is no such thing as a Maryland CCW. It's called a Maryland Handgun Permit in law and on the permit itself. It's sometimes referred to as a "wear and carry permit" by the Maryland State Police, to avoid confusion with the Handgun Qualification License.

Second, no one cares if the MSP, DC MPD or NYPD have turned you down for lack of a so called "good and substantial reason" under their current scheme. That's just people self imposing battered gun owner syndrome on themselves (and infecting others).

If your turned down, demand the MSP does it in writing and within the time period required by law, then move on. Don't let them tell you that you will be denied or talk you into withdrawing your application or saying you have been denied without actually sending you a denial letter as required by law.

Finally, if you were turned down, dissaproved or otherwise denied for a Maryland Handgun Permit by the MSP under the current scheme, you should research your rights, your eligibility and the most effective way to present your case by attending a few of the Handgun Permit Review Board meeting in person.

You may come away with a permit and a whole new opinion of the Maryland State Police.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Sundazes · Jun 30, 2017

jbrown50 said:
Baloney.

DoD employee here with a TS/SCI. I was denied for a DC carry permit but just renewed my NH permit without a problem. I also have three other permits (FL, UT and VA). There's a difference between being denied because a may issue state wouldn't accept your G&S and being denied because of some sort of mark on your record. Even then you're not necessarily banned for life.

+1 here as well. Disapproved in MD (part of the 365) and have 3 other states permits.

Rab1515 · Jun 30, 2017

fred333 said:
I doubt it, but anything's possible. For the skinny, probably best to contact the Maryland State Police barracks in Baltimore (MDSP).

HA. You forgot a sarcasm there.

Kaffakid · Jul 2, 2017

MD W&C For OPM Security Breach

jbrown50 said:
DoD employee here with a TS/SCI. I was denied for a DC carry permit but just renewed my NH permit without a problem.

Not surprised about the DC rejection. Did you apply for a MD Wear and Carry?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rab1515 · Jul 2, 2017

Kaffakid said:
Not surprised about the DC rejection. Did you apply for a MD Wear and Carry?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Supposedly TS/SCI is what MSP is looking for in a clearence.

Schipperke · Jul 2, 2017

Get er done before Richard S. Madaleno, Jr. gets another bite at the apple.

dblas · Jul 3, 2017

Rab1515 said:
Supposedly TS/SCI is what MSP is looking for in a clearence.

TS...not really concerned with anything that goes with it.

Ghost40 · Jul 5, 2017

Here is the $64,000 question. As someone who may or may not work in the industry, I understand best practice is to not tell everybody and their mother that you have one. How are the holders of said TS (especially SCI) brandishing proof to the MSP? Most, if not all DoD entities are not going to give you a letter stating you have one. And if you are a federal contractor, your company's security officer shouldn't be providing that letter either.

Can I assume MSP is taking your word for it? I doubt it. You can provide a CAC for ID, but that doesn't denote a clearance.Certain installation badges you can only get with a clearance, but then, most of those are FOUO only.

I'd be interested to hear how that is being done, since I may or may not be in the pipe for this.

MD W&C For OPM Security Breach

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