Montoya Hearing Results....

BeoBill · Dec 23, 2015

I'm extremely sorry for the news. With you, Gryphon and all the others who were wrongly denied I can see a class action in the future.

El_flasko · Dec 23, 2015

Sorry to hear Tim.

mxrider · Dec 23, 2015

Something about the minutes being posted:

1. It lists how each person voted, but the motion is not recorded? They all voted in favor. In favor of what?

montoya32 · Dec 23, 2015

mxrider said:
Something about the minutes being posted:

1. It lists how each person voted, but the motion is not recorded? They all voted in favor. In favor of what?

It looks like Jurgena motioned to sustain the MSP decision, West seconded and Wilson was for it also.

gre24ene · Dec 23, 2015

Why bother going into closed session to vote, and then publish results? :sad20:

Tim
Keep fighting the good fight

Ranchero50 · Dec 23, 2015

Yeah, fool us once shame on you...

Keep up the good fight, next year should be interesting.

Schipperke · Dec 23, 2015

gre24ene said:
Why bother going into closed session to vote, and then publish results?

Tim
Keep fighting the good fight

They didn't want an insurrection, there.

moojersey · Dec 23, 2015

Tim so sorry to hear. It's time for all of us to get honest and admit this new board is not sympathetic to the 2A cause.

sic semper tyrannis

GTOGUNNER · Dec 23, 2015

This hearing was for a modification of restrictions Correct?

mxrider · Dec 23, 2015

GTOGUNNER said:
This hearing was for a modification of restrictions Correct?

That is correct.

montoya32 · Dec 23, 2015

GTOGUNNER said:
This hearing was for a modification of restrictions Correct?

I know it's semantics, but it was an appeal of restrictions applied to my permit. I appealed within 10 days of receiving my permit, not within days days of having a modification request denied.

Malachi.2.15 · Dec 23, 2015

So very sorry! Thanks so much for all you have done to try and further our cause...

GTOGUNNER · Dec 23, 2015

I realize when Pallozzi was anointed, everyone had high hopes, hoping that permits would be easier to get. That hasn't happened.
What he can easily do is not add restrictions. The law clearly says the Secretary of the MSP can apply TPM restrictions. Paraphrased... If he can, then he can not as well.

good guy 176 · Dec 23, 2015

You should have garnered at least two votes: West and White. Both pro gun...disappointed the vote went against you!

I will return to my roots in western PA some day, I hope, and will thus beat with my feet.

Have experienced way TOO much change since 1977 and cannot tolerate the liberal turds and stupid gun laws that do nothing to inhibit criminal activity. As I've told hundreds, I am less safe in Laurel, MD 20707 than I ever was in Saigon, Nha Trang, Pleiku, Toy Hoa, Qui Nhon, Ban Me Thout, Seoul or Camp Kaiser, Korea.

Lew--Ranger63
US Army (Ret-'84)

fabsroman · Dec 23, 2015

GTOGUNNER said:
I realize when Pallozzi was anointed, everyone had high hopes, hoping that permits would be easier to get. That hasn't happened.
What he can easily do is not add restrictions. The law clearly says the Secretary of the MSP can apply TPM restrictions. Paraphrased... If he can, then he can not as well.

Ah, but it does appear that Tim did receive his CCW permit, just with restrictions. Now, for MSP to start giving out those permits without any restrictions whatsoever will be a huge step in the right direction. The restrictions and having to give my fingerprints for a CCW permit are the reasons I do not apply. About the only place I have felt the need to conceal carry is Baltimore City and parts of PG County. Obviously, since I did not have a permit I did not carry whatsoever. Might have to think about tossing a long arm in the trunk though IF/WHEN I have to go to those places.

montoya32 · Dec 23, 2015

good guy 176 said:
You should have garnered at least two votes: West and White. Both pro gun...disappointed the vote went against you!

I will return to my roots in western PA some day, I hope, and will thus beat with my feet.

Have experienced way TOO much change since 1977 and cannot tolerate the liberal turds and stupid gun laws that do nothing to inhibit criminal activity. As I've told hundreds, I am less safe in Laurel, MD 20707 than I ever was in Saigon, Nha Trang, Pleiku, Toy Hoa, Qui Nhon, Ban Me Thout, Seoul or Camp Kaiser, Korea.

Lew--Ranger63
US Army (Ret-'84)

White recused herself because she and I have had contact before. She and her husband taught a Utah permit class in my office for about 8-10 people 5 years ago.

redeemed.man · Dec 23, 2015

fabsroman said:
Ah, but it does appear that Tim did receive his CCW permit, just with restrictions. Now, for MSP to start giving out those permits without any restrictions whatsoever will be a huge step in the right direction. The restrictions and having to give my fingerprints for a CCW permit are the reasons I do not apply. About the only place I have felt the need to conceal carry is Baltimore City and parts of PG County. Obviously, since I did not have a permit I did not carry whatsoever. Might have to think about tossing a long arm in the trunk though IF/WHEN I have to go to those places.

Might want to think again about Baltimore City. Long gun law in the city pre-existed state preemption. Not saying you can't do it because IANAL but just be aware the law is not the same in the city.

dblas · Dec 23, 2015

fabsroman said:
Didn't we just go through this last week? Everybody take a deep breath. I know that is what the OP is doing. Now, that does not mean ignore this, it just means take a deep breath, step back, and see what we can do from a procedural/legal standpoint.

It looks like the OP had very competent counsel either representing him, or at least testifying on his behalf. OP, ask your attorney what the next step is, if any.

Also, I am somewhat surprised that the HPRB does not have to give a reason for sustaining the MSP's denial. Is there no basis required for the HPRB affirming the denial? Sheez, the County Attorney for Howard County wrote a four (4) page opinion as to why the Animal Control Board ruled the way it did in my matter. A four (4) page opinion about the evidence available, the lack of evidence on the part of Animal Control, the failure of Animal Control to meet its burden of proof, etc.

Is this sheet of paper the only thing that the HPRB provides? If so, the entire process seems like a sham with not much to appeal from, if possible, other than the MSP's justification for the denial.

Is the HPRB proceeding recorded?

This was the just the brief of the hearing and not the denial letter with findings and reason that will be sent to Tim. That letter should have a reason for upholding the denial.

dblas · Dec 23, 2015

gre24ene said:
Why bother going into closed session to vote, and then publish results?

Tim
Keep fighting the good fight

Open meetings act requirement.

protegeV · Dec 23, 2015

Schipperke said:
They didn't want an insurrection, there.

As much as we want to, we don't say anything. Well, most of us anyways

Montoya Hearing Results....

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