DE to stop honoring NR permits

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  • fred55

    Senior
    Aug 24, 2016
    1,772
    Spotsylvania Co. VA
    This is disheartening and worry-some. I hope this trend proves unsuccessful. As was mentioned earlier a National right to carry is needed; however, that would probably start a "State's rights" case... Common sense is not really common when it comes to writing gratuitous firearm legislation. Despicable Fred
     

    adit

    ReMember
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 20, 2013
    19,496
    DE
    NOT SO FAST, maybe not so fast. Read the rest of it, in red and bold black, emphasis mine.

    http://attorneygeneral.delaware.gov/criminal/concealedweapons.shtml

    Pursuant to Delaware Code Title 11 Section 1441, as of July 11, 2003, Delaware law allows residents of other states who have been issued a concealed deadly weapon license or permit by certain other states to lawfully carry concealed deadly weapons in Delaware if the state is on the below list of reciprocating states and the person is visiting or traveling through Delaware.

    A Delaware resident must have a valid Delaware permit to carry a concealed deadly weapon. A Delaware resident with a non-resident permit from a reciprocating state cannot carry a concealed deadly weapon in Delaware. A Delaware resident is one who carries or is required to have a Delaware driver’s license and/or is registered to vote in Delaware. If you have any questions concerning residency or the application process, please contact the Attorney General’s Office at (302) 577-8600.

    The Attorney General is in the process of securing agreements with the appropriate officials in certain other states which when completed, permit persons who have a concealed deadly weapon license or permit issued by one of those states to lawfully possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through Delaware. Similarly, Delawareans will be able to possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through those states. However, as of today Delaware does not recognize the concealed deadly weapon licenses or permits issued by states other than those listed below, and these states do not recognize Delaware's concealed deadly weapons licenses as valid.


    ALASKA ARIZONA ARKANSAS COLORADO FLORIDA IDAHO(Enhanced Permits Only) KENTUCKY MAINE MICHIGAN MISSOURI NEW MEXICO NORTH CAROLINA NORTH DAKOTA(Class 1 permits only) OHIO OKLAHOMA SOUTH DAKOTA(Enhanced Permits Only) TENNESSEE TEXAS UTAH WEST VIRGINIA


    As of September 23, 2017 Delaware will no longer honor non-resident Concealed Carry Permits issued by any jurisdiction.

    Law enforcement officials from other jurisdictions can verify Delaware CCDW permits by contacting the Delaware State Police Headquarters on a 24/7 basis via NLET.AM directed to DEDSP0000 or by calling 302-659-2341

    Persons who have a concealed deadly weapons license or permit issued by one of the states listed above will be able to lawfully possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through Delaware. However, such persons will be subject to and are responsible for knowing and obeying all of Delaware's laws and regulations that apply to the carrying and possession of concealed or openly-carried deadly weapons.

    Click here for information on licensing to carry a concealed deadly weapon in Delaware

    Because of differences in the laws of the various states, it is possible that a person who is lawfully permitted to possess a deadly weapon in another state may be prohibited from doing so pursuant to Delaware law. The following persons are prohibited from possessing deadly weapons or ammunition in Delaware:

    •any person previously convicted of any felony

    •any person previously convicted of any misdemeanor involving physical injury to another or domestic violence, unless more than 5 years has elapsed from the date of the conviction

    •any person previously convicted of any crime involving the unlawful use, possession or sale of any illegal drug

    •any person who has not yet reached his or her 25th birthday who has been previously convicted as a juvenile of a crime which, if committed by an adult, would constitute a felony

    •any person who is subject to a Protection From Abuse Order issued by a competent court

    •any person who has previously been committed to a hospital or mental institution for treatment for a mental disorder

    Possession of a deadly weapon by a person prohibited from doing so is a felony.

    Click here to view Delaware's Possession of a Deadly Weapon by a Prohibited Person statute.

    Delaware law also prohibits the possession of silencers, sawed-off shotguns and machine guns under all circumstances.

    Delawareans who have a Delaware concealed deadly weapons permit will be able to possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through the states listed above, and also in Idaho, Indiana and Vermont. However, Delawareans who possess a concealed deadly weapon in another state will be subject to and are responsible for knowing and obeying all of the laws and regulations in the other state that apply to the carrying and possession of concealed or openly-carried deadly weapons. Because of differences in the laws of the various states, it is possible that a person who is lawfully permitted to possess a deadly weapon pursuant to Delaware law may be prohibited from doing so in another state. Most other states require any person who is carrying a concealed deadly weapon pursuant to a license or permit to also be in possession of the license or permit.

    The Attorney General is in the process of securing agreements with the appropriate officials in certain other states which will, when completed, permit persons who have a concealed deadly weapon license or permit issued by one of those states to lawfully possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through Delaware. Similarly, Delawareans will be able to possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through those states. However, as of today Delaware does not recognize the concealed deadly weapon licenses or permits issued by states other than those listed above, and these states do not recognize Delaware's concealed deadly weapons licenses as valid.

    As agreements are completed with other states this web page will be updated accordingly.

    -------------------------------------------

    As I see it. This is due to DE doing what MD did in rewriting the "disqualifying" rules (juvenile offenses which would be adult felonies), and how/when they apply (what MD has recently seen with the HQL now causing people to be disqualified because of juvenile record issues).

    All of the listed NR CC Permits will be honored, but it will be up to the individual to know DE laws, and whether they can carry under them.

    I would expect to get hassled in New Castle County(up North). I would not expect to get hassled in Kent and Sussex counties, unless you get stopped by a rookie who may not know better.

    I'd expect the DE Attorney General to compare the statutes between the states listed and reaffirm those listed who meet DE guidelines. I'd expect some of those in the list to fall off in that process.

    I'd also expect that the National CC Act would make this all a moot point, if it ever gets passed.

    And most important, IANAL.
     

    NOVA1

    Member
    Aug 18, 2013
    16
    As I wrote on the other thread noting Handgunlaw updates, I do not believe that this is a lawful distinction that the AG can make.

    For those interested, here is the operative portion of Section 1441(j)- again, note no distinction appears permissible between non-resident and resident permits for non-Delaware residents. The focus is on the "issuing state", not the state of the permittee's residence:

    (j) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Code to the contrary, the State of Delaware shall give full faith and credit and shall otherwise honor and give full force and effect to all licenses/permits issued to the citizens of other states where those issuing states also give full faith and credit and otherwise honor the licenses issued by the State of Delaware pursuant to this section and where those licenses/permits are issued by authority pursuant to state law and which afford a reasonably similar degree of protection as is provided by licensure in Delaware.
     

    NOVA1

    Member
    Aug 18, 2013
    16
    I agree. As pointed out in my posts on the other thread, it probably makes sense to alert the Second Amendment Foundation of this change (if they do not already know about it). I would suggest filing a motion for declaratory judgment in the Court of Common Pleas to have this section interpreted. And yes, I am a lawyer, but not licensed in Delaware.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    This is disheartening and worry-some. I hope this trend proves unsuccessful. As was mentioned earlier a National right to carry is needed; however, that would probably start a "State's rights" case... Common sense is not really common when it comes to writing gratuitous firearm legislation. Despicable Fred

    HR 38 National Reciprocity Act bases it's authority on the Commerce Clause in the COTUS. It will be hard for a state to raise a 10A argument.

    But IANAL.
     

    NOVA1

    Member
    Aug 18, 2013
    16
    I agree with swinokur. The SC's interpretation of the Commerce Clause since the 1940's clearly gives a basis for a national reciprocity statute. I see no reasonable chance that a commerce clause challenge to a national reciprocity act would be successful. Unfortunately, it also seems unlikely that the statute would pass a Senate filibuster.
     

    Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    yep, some have postulated (Patrick IIRC) that the only way for it to pass is if it attached as an amendment to a bill the Dems want badly and could be attached with a simple up or down vote. Like the NPS carry bill attached to the Credit Card reform act of 2009.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    Can you get a NR NH permit if you don't have a CCW in your home state? I thought you had to have one where you lived or they won't issue... i.e. MD resident w/o G&S is SOL.

    The NH SCOTUS struck down that requirement. Many MDS members have gotten NH NR permits since that ruling

    I did. 100 bucks. no prints, no training, no picture

    thread here

    https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=194472&highlight=scotus

    application here. leave the home state permit blank

    https://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/nhsp/ssb/permitslicensing/plupr.html
     

    Overboost44

    6th gear
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 10, 2013
    6,619
    Kent Island
    NOT SO FAST, maybe not so fast. Read the rest of it, in red and bold black, emphasis mine.

    http://attorneygeneral.delaware.gov/criminal/concealedweapons.shtml


    [/COLOR][/U]
    Click here for information on licensing to carry a concealed deadly weapon in Delaware


    And most important, IANAL.

    Great post ADIT. Just to make it quicker for those searching the link above, scroll down to article 1441 and read from that point on.

    This really sucks. Most of my family lives there. :mad54:
     

    NOVA1

    Member
    Aug 18, 2013
    16
    De AG website removed the questionable language

    Hey all. It appears that the AG has altered its website and it seems that the offending portion has been taken down. Hopefully, upon further review, the AG has concluded that the statute ( section 1441(j) ) does not give him the authority to distinguish between residents and non-residents of reciprocal states. Again, after reviewing the statute, I do not see how a court can conclude otherwise. I have 15 years as a lawyer interpreting statutes every day and this seems pretty clear to me.

    Let's keep an eye on this and remain vigilant.
     

    whatevah

    Unregistered User
    Mar 17, 2012
    166
    Wilmington, DE
    Deleware still an open carry state though?

    yes, but according to handgunlaw.us, not very common. expect to get hassled by LE if you do.

    Yes, Open Carry is allowed (not banned, therefore allowed). Vehicular carry is also allowed, however common advice is that it must be visible from the side windows to be "open"... so, a holster on your hip isn't a good idea. I typically suggest a nylon holster wedged between the passenger seat and console or fasten the empty passenger seatbelt and clip the holster to the seatbelt. With a passenger? perhaps a holster sitting in a cup-holder or on a dash storage tray?

    As for LE hassling, that's not very common anymore... there are a growing number of people OC'ing daily, most in New Castle County, with zero issues from LE. Folks have been hassled at the beach (mostly from the seasonal officers), but that's been getting better as training has improved.

    for more on the open carry nuances in Delaware, check out www.deloc.org and the forums there.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    great news NOVA1. Perhaps the AG read your interpretation and agreed with you

    old and new AG web pages attached.

    :D
    .
     

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