Useful information from our MD Senators

This whole thread is dead horse beating. I thought that's what we do around here.

As I said tho: the measure of long term success is we get legislators on our side. Gail Bates got defeated, extremely disappointing. Did people give it their all? I bet not, I personally did not even see it coming.

Some people here are praying for a Hogan veto when they spent years complaining and by some opinions subverting his re election.

I stayed out of the other thread because I knew it was going to devolve into a total sh!tshow. I'm not going to debate the merits of the PP but will put out a couple of indisputable facts.

Because of the exposure the PP has gained, R&R and myself are routinely contacted by MSM reporters for comment on various stories they are working on. Luke Broadwater, Justin Fenton and more have my personal cell number and have used it because we are becoming a prominent 2A advocacy group and can articulate our positions well. We have also been tapped to appear on radio programs and other taped for broadcast interviews. Foreign news service journalists regularly have reached out for interviews and articles as well. And we are not alone, Mark P, the guy who runs MD 2A Advocates, Mr. Boomstick, etc.. I know experience the same.

As smart as a recently former member might be these reporters are not reaching out to him or others for comments on various 2A related issues, it just doesn't happen unless you are active on the outside and visible. The reason that we go to the anti's demonstrations is to be there for the press to A. Explain out side of the issue and B. To lessen the amount of time and exposure given to the antis. Case in point, the Ch 9 story last Tuesday night. Scott Broom couldn't find any legislators or other antis to give balance to his story so we got the entire 2.5 minute segment. Great for us, but we don't want that for the other side which is why we were at the NRA (3 times), the DOJ, the Capitol for the die-in, etc...

All the efforts by each and every one of us have value and contrary to what you might have heard from a few malcontents recently there is no animosity between the PP and MSI, MSRPA, the current NRA-ILA liason, etc... because we are all working towards the same goal. A lot if not most (we don't check) of the PP participants are members of MSI and some of MSRPA. A lot of them subscribe to John Josslyn's email alerts because they are an excellent resource to track firearms related bills. Oh, the horror! Does that mean that the PP "runs" MSI? Nothing could be further from the truth, but it does mean that as members of MSI we are familiar to them and as such would be ASKED to be plaintiffs in various lawsuits.

And it also might surprise some of those that weren't in Annapolis on gun bill day and others, for whatever reason, that a multitude of the PP put on the nice clothes and gave very knowledgeable and credible testimony before the various House and Senate committees. And Art3 has won the award for "Best Dressed Patriot on the Bricks" for three years running. His standard attire is a suit and tie whether he is on the picket line or before a Senate committee.

Stoveman said:

I stayed out of the other thread because I knew it was going to devolve into a total sh!tshow. I'm not going to debate the merits of the PP but will put out a couple of indisputable facts.

Because of the exposure the PP has gained, R&R and myself are routinely contacted by MSM reporters for comment on various stories they are working on. Luke Broadwater, Justin Fenton and more have my personal cell number and have used it because we are becoming a prominent 2A advocacy group and can articulate our positions well. We have also been tapped to appear on radio programs and other taped for broadcast interviews. Foreign news service journalists regularly have reached out for interviews and articles as well. And we are not alone, Mark P, the guy who runs MD 2A Advocates, Mr. Boomstick, etc.. I know experience the same.

As smart as a recently former member might be these reporters are not reaching out to him or others for comments on various 2A related issues, it just doesn't happen unless you are active on the outside and visible. The reason that we go to the anti's demonstrations is to be there for the press to A. Explain out side of the issue and B. To lessen the amount of time and exposure given to the antis. Case in point, the Ch 9 story last Tuesday night. Scott Broom couldn't find any legislators or other antis to give balance to his story so we got the entire 2.5 minute segment. Great for us, but we don't want that for the other side which is why we were at the NRA (3 times), the DOJ, the Capitol for the die-in, etc...

All the efforts by each and every one of us have value and contrary to what you might have heard from a few malcontents recently there is no animosity between the PP and MSI, MSRPA, the current NRA-ILA liason, etc... because we are all working towards the same goal. A lot if not most (we don't check) of the PP participants are members of MSI and some of MSRPA. A lot of them subscribe to John Josslyn's email alerts because they are an excellent resource to track firearms related bills. Oh, the horror! Does that mean that the PP "runs" MSI? Nothing could be further from the truth, but it does mean that as members of MSI we are familiar to them and as such would be ASKED to be plaintiffs in various lawsuits.

And it also might surprise some of those that weren't in Annapolis on gun bill day and others, for whatever reason, that a multitude of the PP put on the nice clothes and gave very knowledgeable and credible testimony before the various House and Senate committees. And Art3 has won the award for "Best Dressed Patriot on the Bricks" for three years running. His standard attire is a suit and tie whether he is on the picket line or before a Senate committee.

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^ very well said Stoveman.


Art3 wins best beard too.

I just showed up for the cool shirt !!!

fabsroman said:

Were you wearing a white and blue shirt when you asked a Republican legislator if the PP had value? If so, would you expect them to say you are causing more harm than good? Kind of like somebody ugly as sin going up to a legislator and asking, "Do you think I am good looking?" Would you expect the legislator to say, "No, you are the ugliest person I have ever seen in my entire life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

The question on PP is a lot more involved than just whether it is seen as a positive by the Republican legislator's, or a boost to their morale. I don't doubt it is a boost to the Republican legislator's morale and they are most likely going to vote our way anyway. The question regarding PP has to be looked at in totality. Giving Atterbeary photo ammo for a tweet, Facebook, and whatever else has to be taken into account. How much does the PP motivate the opposing side? How much does PP change the minds of the sponsors of these bills, of the left leaning supporters of these bills? We don't need to change conservative minds. We need to change minds in the middle and on the left. Changing those on the far left is an attempt in futility.

Last year, at the 300 strong "More Patriots Than You Have Handcuffs" march, I ran into Trent Kittleman "on the bricks" and she said she was happy to see us. I have written her e-mails a couple of times this session and received a response both times. The second e-mail wrote to her was lambasting her about leaving a lot about the gun bills out of her weekly updates, and she wrote a pretty decent, lengthy, reply. In years past, I have always heard back from Warren Miller and Gail Bates, but not this year. Why Delegate Warren is not responding is beyond me, and Gail Bates lost her election to a liberal, Katie Hester, and I have not received a response from her either. So, that worries me. As far as handwriting letters/notes to them, that takes way too long for me and my handwriting is way too messy. It would take me the entire day to legibly write out what I just typed up in this post.

Is the horse entirely dead now, or do we need to beat it a little more? Maybe it needs to be beat to the point we can no longer recognize it as having been a horse.

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Not a kindly response to my attempt to get outside views, from people who are in a position to effect change (though admittedly they are thoroughly outnumbered).

My handwriting sucks too. And I don't dress up in suit and tie because i don't own one, and the point of PP is visibility through uniform appearance.

I'll eat horsemeat, but not crow. Sorry if my taking a stand blocks someone else's view of their subjective reality. I can't say I'm pleased with what I see, but I'm doing what I can to draw attention to problems I see, that opponents see as opportunities.

I've long ago passed the point where I'm frozen into inaction as I stand, stunned, in the face of complexity. Now the time has come to do something, and this is what I do. It's simple, and direct, and those who don't like it are free to dislike. However, I don't plan to change my mind.

Find your own ways to deal with things, but please have the grace to let me persist in my folly.

It's said that a fool who persists in his folly may achieve wisdom, though all I want to achieve is to be left alone by the forces of government. Is that too much to ask?

I think some people forget we are working with a negative , that being the political hacks . I have no problem getting in a doing dirty work , holding signs that are not flattering to their position . while the other Orgs. do some of the paperwork and legal ease .

Plus we need the people that don't have the time to be there on the bricks that will chip in with some money or the folks writing letters . We all are important , as long as you keep doing something .

Bravo Stoveman and BobA

I sent original, typed, hand-signed mailed letters to all my reps. I assume that it's the "getting something original in the mail" that has most of the impact.

Alas, I live the in the People's Republic of MoCo so it didn't accomplish much, but I fought the good fight.

Bob A said:

Not a kindly response to my attempt to get outside views, from people who are in a position to effect change (though admittedly they are thoroughly outnumbered).

My handwriting sucks too. And I don't dress up in suit and tie because i don't own one, and the point of PP is visibility through uniform appearance.

I'll eat horsemeat, but not crow. Sorry if my taking a stand blocks someone else's view of their subjective reality. I can't say I'm pleased with what I see, but I'm doing what I can to draw attention to problems I see, that opponents see as opportunities.

I've long ago passed the point where I'm frozen into inaction as I stand, stunned, in the face of complexity. Now the time has come to do something, and this is what I do. It's simple, and direct, and those who don't like it are free to dislike. However, I don't plan to change my mind.

Find your own ways to deal with things, but please have the grace to let me persist in my folly.

It's said that a fool who persists in his folly may achieve wisdom, though all I want to achieve is to be left alone by the forces of government. Is that too much to ask?

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My response was an evaluation. It was not meant to be kind or unkind. I never mentioned in my response that you should be wearing a suit and tie. I only asked if you were wearing a WWNC shirt. Walking up to a conservative legislator while wearing an obvious PP shirt and asking how the PP is perceived is akin to my wife asking me how she looks in her new jeans.

Note that you are also the one that started this thread. Did you just assume that everybody would agree with you and give you high fives and thumbs up? I know you are smarter than that, and I know you have been following the other threads on here regarding this matter, but decided to start a new thread on the subject. So, I ask you, why even start this thread wherein we are not going to be able to find an objective answer after having debated it in other threads?

I don't care that you participate in PP. You have your view on its effectiveness and I have mine. We are obviously not going to change each other's views no matter how kindly we post our positions to one another. I seriously thought my post would have conveyed how biased the representative's response would be to your question, but I guess it was not conveyed as I had thought. Instead, you took offense to me disagreeing with you. So be it. Was not my intent to offend you.

What do you think a liberal legislator would say to somebody that comes up to them with a red shirt and asks, "Are we having any effect here on the Maryland General Assembly?"

I would be interested in hearing what Atterbeary's response would be to the same question you asked last night.

This is all a subjective debate with no way for anybody to prove one another right or wrong, and Lord only knows whether a politician's response is sincere or not.

fabsroman said:

I would be interested in hearing what Atterbeary's response would be to the same question you asked last night.

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Del. Atterbeary escaped out the side quickly before anyone could talk to her.

clandestine said:

Bravo Stoveman and BobA

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Ditto!

As I have slowly been getting involved in this contacting my legislators I wanted to assure anyone that hasn't done this before that it's not that hard. Of course living in SW Chuck county I can pretty much tell you how my representatives replied... From not a word to a canned response that a staffer made up. So, my next step is to go down and have a meeting with each one of them. At least then the response will be from them. Look guys we know we are a minority in Maryland and we really can't do much more than being a pain in their ass. So shall it be.
. Fabs, I've never seen anyone able to take a one word answer and manage to write a novel before your finished answering. I'm not attacking you I'm asking you to put what you believe into words and let not just your reps know but contact everyone on each judicial committee that pertains to our 2A cause and let them know how you believe. You have a talent at the keyboard, use it for our fight.
. My writing skills are deplorable at best and just composing this is taking me 15 minutes. So my skills are walking the bricks, showing up at man up Mondays and when possible give testimony.

Arguing within our community at this time while our rights are being taken away from us is a lesson in futility. Let's not tear each other down but instead direct our energy towards our common cause. Keeping our rights.

Patriots unite!!

"Does the pro-gun lobby in Maryland do an effective job of supporting gun rights?"

50.4% no
24.8%: yes.

Keep in mind before you dismiss this information: 1-The people who read the blog are among the most politically active in the state; 2-If Republicans are not on our side in this state, no one is.
https://redmaryland.com/2019/03/red-maryland-radio-404-march-21-2019/

This poll should have come out the opposite: 75% yes. Instead we get 75% "no" and "maybe"

PowPow said:

Del. Atterbeary escaped out the side quickly before anyone could talk to her.

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I am sure she did. However, she is your rep so you should be able to get an audience with her at some point. Schedule that appointment, wear the PP shirt, and then ask her thoughts on PP. I'm just interested in hearing what her response would be.

clandestine said:

Bravo Stoveman and BobA

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Hear, hear!

fabsroman said:

. . . I never mentioned in my response that you should be wearing a suit and tie. I only asked if you were wearing a WWNC shirt. Walking up to a conservative legislator while wearing an obvious PP shirt and asking how the PP is perceived is akin to my wife asking me how she looks in her new jeans.

***

I would be interested in hearing what Atterbeary's response would be to the same question you asked last night . . .

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So Bob A posted some useful feedback and you can’t help but coming in here and pissing in his Cheerios to prove yet again you are a contrarian?

You are entitled to you opinions, but as you say the debate has been exhausted. Bob A likely came here to escape your nagging.

If you are caught up with your tax returns, and can’t shoot clays at AGC, perhaps your time would be better spent figuring out the answer to your wife’s next question. You might have a chance of convincing her. Here you are just beating the dead horse yourself. FFS let it go.

fabsroman said:

I am sure she did. However, she is your rep so you should be able to get an audience with her at some point. Schedule that appointment, wear the PP shirt, and then ask her thoughts on PP. I'm just interested in hearing what her response would be.

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She was thrown off balance and a little frightened. Good. That’s the intent of the 2A.

DivingDriver said:

As I have slowly been getting involved in this contacting my legislators I wanted to assure anyone that hasn't done this before that it's not that hard. Of course living in SW Chuck county I can pretty much tell you how my representatives replied... From not a word to a canned response that a staffer made up. So, my next step is to go down and have a meeting with each one of them. At least then the response will be from them. Look guys we know we are a minority in Maryland and we really can't do much more than being a pain in their ass. So shall it be.
. Fabs, I've never seen anyone able to take a one word answer and manage to write a novel before your finished answering. I'm not attacking you I'm asking you to put what you believe into words and let not just your reps know but contact everyone on each judicial committee that pertains to our 2A cause and let them know how you believe. You have a talent at the keyboard, use it for our fight.
. My writing skills are deplorable at best and just composing this is taking me 15 minutes. So my skills are walking the bricks, showing up at man up Mondays and when possible give testimony.

Arguing within our community at this time while our rights are being taken away from us is a lesson in futility. Let's not tear each other down but instead direct our energy towards our common cause. Keeping our rights.

Patriots unite!!

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I come to the Md2A forum to find out what is going on with these bills, not to read about how "great" PP is doing in the fight. Chad just created a section for PP posts in his IP forum, yet this one is started in Md2A once again. I know, don't click on it. I know, I know, I know. However, I saw the OP was Bob A, whom I respect immensely, so I said "what the hell". Posted a response and turned off instant e-mail notifications, but they keep on coming and coming. I am living in a nightmare and need to join MDS-anonymous. Might have to just mark MDS mail as spam for the time being.

Ok, just realized why I clicked on the thread. The title is:

"Useful information from our MD Senators."

Heck, I would love to read about useful information from our MD Senators.
Instead, it turned out to be "Conservative politicians think the PP is doing a great job"

I've been writing plenty. Like I already said, my own reps are letting me down this year, with the exception of Kittleman. Last year, I never thought that would be the case. Then, there was an election. Miller, Kittleman, and Bates always wrote me back in prior years. Miller was always a canned response stating that he supported the 2nd Amendment, but crickets from him this entire session. Both Kittleman and Bates would send me personal responses stating that they support the 2nd Amendment. Granted, I had met and spoken to both Kittleman and Bates in the community. Have yet to run into Miller though. Katie Fry Hester ran on a platform of "common sense" gun control, so I doubt I'll be getting a response from her. She beat Bates in last year's election.

Thing is, I don't come on here and post copies of every e-mail/letter I send, then say how great a job I am doing with my writing and phone calls (i.e., self congratulating myself), and how much I am having an effect in this fight (i.e., self congratulating myself once more).

Why does Md2A have to be the PP forum still? Have Norton or somebody else move this to Chad's forum and let Chad edit away.

Last but not least, we don't need to appeal to the people that already have their CCW permits, those that willingly open carry long guns, those that are extremely conservative, those that are steadfast supporters of the 2nd Amendment, etc. They are already on our side and we already have their vote. High fives and back slaps from them are meaningless. We need to appeal to Fudds, fence sitters, and people just leaning a little to the left. When we are receiving congrats and compliments from the Fudds, fence sitters, and people just leaning a little to the left, then we are winning. Not even sure whether the local news covering WWNC is a plus or a minus. Just because one makes the news, is not necessarily a good thing. Lots of bad news out there. Is the local news media running this stuff because it agrees with us, or for shock value for its base of viewers?

danb said:

"Does the pro-gun lobby in Maryland do an effective job of supporting gun rights?"

50.4% no
24.8%: yes.

Keep in mind before you dismiss this information: 1-The people who read the blog are among the most politically active in the state; 2-If Republicans are not on our side in this state, no one is.
https://redmaryland.com/2019/03/red-maryland-radio-404-march-21-2019/

This poll should have come out the opposite: 75% yes. Instead we get 75% "no" and "maybe"

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A few points:

• For that specific question, the "Yes" number should have been ~36, based on the 24.8% response, not the 3 shown. Fat finger or fudges number? I do not know.
• Adding that number to the 36 "Maybes", you get almost the same percentage as the "Nos." Not a bad showing overall, IMO.
• The survey as a whole over-represents AA, BaltCo, Carroll, Harford, and Montgomery counties based on the number of responses. Significantly, PG had only TWO people responding.

Those from just a cursory eyeball of the results. I'm certain additional insights could be gained from sharper minds than mine actually analyzing the results.