9mm luger and 380 ACP

ras_oscar · Mar 5, 2017

When sorting my range brass I inevitably cull out a few .380s that sneak in. Some I even cull out of the cleaned bin during a reloading session. Last loading session I actually went so far as to deprime one, before recognizing my mistake (the handle pull during deprime/resize didn't feel right).

I have now taken to reading each head stamp. But that got me to thinking: What would happen if I went through and actually completed reloading on a .380 casing using a 115 grain plated bullet and unique in 9mm dies? Would the bullet seat? would it feed through my firearm? chamber?

This is just an intellectual exercise, I have no intention of ever attempting this.

molonlabe · Mar 5, 2017

They are both .355. In the event you didn't see this. I always check my powder charge to make sure 1 there is powder in it 2 that is is not double or under charged. My guess is I've never tried it my guess the charge in the 9 mm may rupture the 380 case case.
That's my best guess.

1time · Mar 5, 2017

I have seated them using coated bullets. They probably won't case gauge because there will be no bell and the coating gets scraped.

As far as shooting them, I doubt anything bad would happen unless your loads are on the edge. Pressure would probably be a little higher because .380 is slightly smaller around but it won't have as much neck tension so it probably won't be that much different. I wouldn't try it though.

I catch some at the priming stage as they tend to push up in the shell plate. I catch most of them putting a bullet on top due to the lack of a bell and the rest I catch after I seat the bullet. It is very noticeable with the extra length of bullet exposed.

Biggfoot44 · Mar 5, 2017

If seated to proper 9x19 COL , a 115 probably wouldn't work. A 124 might, depending on specific bullet .

Since this is an open forum : Above presented for entertainment purposes only. Not for the treatment of any disease . Not not attempt at home.

1time · Mar 5, 2017

Biggfoot44 said:
If seated to proper 9x19 COL , a 115 probably wouldn't work. A 124 might, depending on specific bullet .

Since this is an open forum : Above presented for entertainment purposes only. Not for the treatment of any disease . Not not attempt at home.

I didn't even think of the bullet length. Mine were 147's.

Jmorrismetal · Mar 6, 2017

have seated them using coated bullets. They probably won't case gauge because there will be no bell and the coating gets scraped.

Even if they did a 380 would fall into a 9mm casegauge and be much deeper because of its smaller diameter.

By diameter is the way I sort them myself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFw7IcQUmgs

ken792 · Mar 6, 2017

A .380 will safely fire in a Glock 19, but it won't have enough recoil to cycle it. A 9x19 charge with a 9x19 weight bullet loaded into a .380 case might cycle it, but I don't know.

Fox123 · Mar 6, 2017

Don't forget 9x18MAK

OEH · Mar 6, 2017

I had one make it through the progressive when I first got it and didn't know the "feel" of a .380 mixing in the brass stack. It was loaded into the middle of a mag and when it fed into the chamber it just went "click". I assume because it wasn't head spaced on the case mouth and wasn't being held tight enough by the extractor to fire. When examined, the bullet had pushed back because the short case didn't crimp tight in the 9mm die. This was in an M&P with an APEX comp. kit installed. Maybe a standard striker sprig would have fired it, IDK.

ras_oscar · Mar 13, 2017

OEH said:
I had one make it through the progressive when I first got it and didn't know the "feel" of a .380 mixing in the brass stack. It was loaded into the middle of a mag and when it fed into the chamber it just went "click". I assume because it wasn't head spaced on the case mouth and wasn't being held tight enough by the extractor to fire. When examined, the bullet had pushed back because the short case didn't crimp tight in the 9mm die. This was in an M&P with an APEX comp. kit installed. Maybe a standard striker sprig would have fired it, IDK.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe 9mm headspaces on the case mouth. That would mean the primer was recessed and the firing pin couldn't reach it.

380 and 9mm Makarov are both 9x18. Are they the 2 designations for the same round or different rounds? Once again an Intellectual exercise, I have 2 9mm pistols. I do not have either a .380 or a 9mm Makarov.

ken792 · Mar 13, 2017

ras_oscar said:
Correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe 9mm headspaces on the case mouth. That would mean the primer was recessed and the firing pin couldn't reach it.

380 and 9mm Makarov are both 9x18. Are they the 2 designations for the same round or different rounds? Once again an Intellectual exercise, I have 2 9mm pistols. I do not have either a .380 or a 9mm Makarov.

It does headspace on the case mouth, but since the .380 case is shorter, it could have skipped forward of the extractor and have been too far for the firing pin to reach.

The .380 is 9x17. They are different rounds with different dimensions. A 9x18 has a .365" bullet instead of the 0.355" in 9x17 and 9x19. However, you can form 9x18 brass from fired 9x19 brass that's been cut down since the bases are basically the same size. Once fired, the 9x19 brass blows out enough.

Biggfoot44 · Mar 13, 2017

While both .380 and 9mm(9x19) both headspace on the mouth, in practice they are retained by the extractor . Often (usually ?) a .380 ctg in a 9mm gun will be held by the extractor in proximity to breach face and firing pin, and hence fire, at least for the initially chambered round. Cycling is problematic.

I haven't personally tried this, but first heard this from eventual MDS member IGOR455 in 1991 ( happened to be my wedding day, so the date sticks in my mind). In one of his then current cases, a defense lawyer was trying to claim since his poor missunderstood client had his 9mm loaded with .380, his client shouldn't have been convicted ( ADW iirc). The police lab tested the gun , and it did go bang.

Not that I recomend doing so, but if someone else does it, I'll assume it will go bang, for better or worse.

ken792 · Mar 13, 2017

I can confirm that a 1911 will fire a 9x19 or a .22LR dropped down the barrel. The firing pin reaches far enough and hits hard enough that it doesn't matter that the cartridge doesn't headspace and that the rim doesn't retain.

Mark75H · Mar 13, 2017

ras_oscar said:
Correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe 9mm headspaces on the case mouth. That would mean the primer was recessed and the firing pin couldn't reach it.

380 and 9mm Makarov are both 9x18. Are they the 2 designations for the same round or different rounds? Once again an Intellectual exercise, I have 2 9mm pistols. I do not have either a .380 or a 9mm Makarov.

Mak is supposed to be 18.10mm and .380 is supposed to be 17.30mm

Eng · Mar 13, 2017

FWIW i stack all the brass on the bench and eyeball the cases looking for the runts! With the Dillon i work ambidextrously so having brass sitting there is convenient.

alucard0822 · Mar 13, 2017

Have seen someone actually fire one, didn't rupture, but swelled the 380 case out pretty far to fill the 9x19 chamber. You can usually feel it because the 380 case doesn't have any resistance in the sizing die, 9x19 cases are usually pretty stubborn to size.

StickShaker · Mar 14, 2017

alucard0822 said:
Have seen someone actually fire one, didn't rupture, but swelled the 380 case out pretty far to fill the 9x19 chamber. You can usually feel it because the 380 case doesn't have any resistance in the sizing die, 9x19 cases are usually pretty stubborn to size.

That's where I always find them too.

cantstop · Mar 14, 2017

alucard0822 said:
Have seen someone actually fire one, didn't rupture, but swelled the 380 case out pretty far to fill the 9x19 chamber. You can usually feel it because the 380 case doesn't have any resistance in the sizing die, 9x19 cases are usually pretty stubborn to size.

+1

I haven't reloaded ammo in over 20 years, but whenever something didn't feel right it went in the discard pile.

alucard0822 · Mar 14, 2017

Probably happens more than most think, have picked up more than a few swelled out 380 cases and even a couple 9x18 mak cases in range pickups at competitions(with a 9x19 minimum). I am sure I've loaded 9x18 brass for 9x19, harder to catch than 380, usually feels stiffer than 9x19 and makes a funny noise as the case is tapered down, to fit the slightly smaller bullet, obviously headspacing would be off, but if it headspaces off of the extractor, you probably wouldn't even notice it, luckily most are steel cased and easy to catch. 380 loaded with a 9x19 setup obviously is overpressure with the smaller case capacity, but it swells out to the chamber and seems to only jam a pistol.

In general, some of the dirtiest, nastiest most beat up brass can be found on the ground after competitions. I sort it with sifters and check it over quick before I even clean it, then check it again after cleaning, some cracks and holes are easier to find with soot, some are easier to find when shiny. Even still sometimes 9x23/super 380 or whatever else finds it way through my case feeder, the longer calibers are caught when they jam the feeder, a pain, but just about 100% are caught, shorter ones rarely make it that far, but thankfully I can catch them when sizing. With the volume I load on my progressives, I don't bother with a case gauge for every round, just a round every so often with powder checks to make sure everything is running right.

9mm luger and 380 ACP

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