Deer rifle season for 8 weeks

Bisleyfan44 · Feb 9, 2017

Bring it on. My suggestion was to make the whole season weapon of choice, but this is a good first step. Deer overpopulation is deer overpopulation, buck or doe. I realize shooting a doe helps control populations than shooting a buck, but I don't think the number of "antlerless' bucks being killed will increase all that much. The number of hunters out at that time of the year combined with the small number of "antlerless" bucks will make the number of these harvested relatively small.

And as usual, the most vocal critics are the bowhunters. They complain every time another segment of the season is opened to muzzleloaders or gun hunters. The actual kills made by bowhunters each year is really quite small; the population will never be kept in check by them, they don't kill enough. You could make deer season bow-only, statewide, all year-round, and the population will still never be kept in check.

Every county should be opened to rifles and handguns where safe to do so. Access to more public lands should be increased. The "safety zone" should be decreased to a more reasonable distance like 50 yards. All good. None will have as dramatic effect as increasing time available to gun hunters, though.

newmuzzleloader · Feb 9, 2017

outrider58 said:
My feeling, access. No point in killing every deer on your farm as long as all the surrounding farms won't allow hunting. Deer learn fast in a pressured environment.

Not just the private property, here inHarford co Parks and Rec own so much undeveloped property, some of it several hundred acres contiguous, that is verboten to even bow hunt.
I agree with the 50 yd bow also.

Mike3888 · Feb 9, 2017

I can't agree with it. We already have a generous bag limit. My coworker who is strictly a bow hunter is very against this and I understand his point. He bow hunts public ground mostly. Like outrider mentioned. Access. Most deer hunters are done when temperature drops or older and can't deal with freezing temps. And the deer harvest records are way off anyway. Just ask the pa hunters who hunt md and are only allowed 1 buck in their state.

fabsroman · Feb 9, 2017

Mike3888 said:
I can't agree with it. We already have a generous bag limit. My coworker who is strictly a bow hunter is very against this and I understand his point. He bow hunts public ground mostly. Like outrider mentioned. Access. Most deer hunters are done when temperature drops or older and can't deal with freezing temps. And the deer harvest records are way off anyway. Just ask the pa hunters who hunt md and are only allowed 1 buck in their state.

The generous bag limit isn't the issue. It is finding time to get out there and hunt. Before I had kids, I would kill 10 deer a year. Now, with soccer, lacrosse, baseball, Sunday school, etc., finding time to hunt isn't easy. Giving me a 2 week window to deer hunt with a firearm makes it even harder.

I also learned my lesson about shooting 8 deer in a morning. If you do something like that, you had better be prepared to spend the rest of the day and evening dealing with it.

The deer problem in this state is akin to the snow goose problem along the Atlantic flyway and the hog problem elsewhere. There is an economic impact to farmers, vehicle drivers, and insurance companies. More deer/auto accidents occur in Montgomery County than auto/auto accidents.

Then, there is the issue of Lyme disease. Take a look at this website. Just click on the map and see how blue Maryland and surrounding states get from 2001 to 2015. Compare that with the rest of the nation. The northeast of the nation has a Lyme Disease plague, and until you have the disease, you have no idea what it is like.

https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/

Seriously, take a look at that map.

So, from a societal perspective, I prefer that farmers be able to make a living, drivers do not die from deer, and people do not suffer from Lyme Disease over bow hunters getting their time in the tree stand to commune with nature.

Now, if you want a win/win, open the season up for firearms in the more rural areas and start an advocacy campaign to enlighten the public about how allowing a bowhunter on their property will help reduce the damage caused by deer. Bowhunters get to hunt areas that are completely unfeasible for firearms, and firearms hunters get more time during the year in which to hunt.

Mike3888 · Feb 9, 2017

I can see where you are coming from, I didn't think of it like that since my kids are grown and I was off from Thanksgiving till the 2nd week of January. I did look at the map and I'm totally aware of the Lyme disease issue.

fabsroman · Feb 9, 2017

Mike3888 said:
I can see where you are coming from, I didn't think of it like that since my kids are grown and I was off from Thanksgiving till the 2nd week of January. I did look at the map and I'm totally aware of the Lyme disease issue.

Before I had kids, I was killing a lot of everything.

10+ deer a year
100+ doves a year
100+ geese a year
50+ ducks a year
50+ crows a year

I set goals and kept count. This was back in the day when I cared about limiting out each and every day I was in the field.

I was hunting every weekend and during the weekdays here and there too. I got Lyme in 2009 right after my 2nd child was born. That was some serious BS. I'd wish Lyme on my worst enemy, but that is about it.

So, the first weekend of deer firearms season is right after Thanksgiving. Lots of stuff going on that weekend with the kids and their extended vacation nowadays. For 15+ years prior to marriage, I hunted opening day of deer season. Not so much anymore. Then, there is all of two more weekends for me to try and get out during that 2 week period. I need more opportunity all the way around to get out when I can find a lull in the chaos. I need a larger window for deer, and hunting on Sundays all the way around for everything in season would also be nice. My son wants to come out with me, but it is really hard when he plays soccer on Saturday. I would love to be able to get him in the waterfowl blind on a Sunday when I don't have to coach and he does not have to play. Alas, no waterfowl hunting on Sunday, or even dove hunting on Sunday.

Mike3888 · Feb 9, 2017

I totally agree on the Sunday across the board. Sorry to hear about the Lyme disease, I know people who have it and I know it's gotta suck.

Biggfoot44 · Feb 9, 2017

What Outrider said, Access . Bag limits are already not a limiting factor. Most hunters have a particular amount of time off from work / desire to sit in blind or stand in middle of winter. Doubling the season later will only have a marginal increase of days afield.

I would certianly enjoy expanded use of rifles and centerfire handguns, but my fully rifled 12ga is effective well beyond typical whitetail distance. Our neighboring state has lots of areas thet are rifles from stands only, and works well enough for them

Say what you will about Archery, but the biggest potential increases in harvests are from opening up areas that were previously unhuntable, many of which have extremely high deer densities.

Reduce archery safety zone to 50yd, increase opportunities in suburban and exurban areas.

Some form of hunter access to undeveloped gov't owned properties.

Incentivize hunter access to private lands currently not hunted. I'm thinking land held by real estate speculators at least as much as actual agricultural properties.

Doco Overboard · Feb 9, 2017

I don't see anything that allows for Sunday hunting anywhere that its not already prohibited or language that include specifically all public lands. Unless that is down there in some of them amendments. There is also no distinction between what species is actually being indicated. Watch what you wish for, your deer lease might just get a whole lot more expensive. In the county that Addie hails from, this could mean already having a warmed up seat in your favorite stand where you been hunting for years and have been accustomed to being there first on opening day of firearms. Access problems solved. I'm sure nobody would mind playing second third or fourth fiddle. I cant speak for lands on the western shore but just like other states that rent not lease stand locations this could get interesting. At first I was adamantly opposed to it but being a landowner I see an opportunity to make some greenola. So I am officially changing my position to hell yeah! 8 weeks of firearms! As a matter of fact Ill put up the premium stand location right outside the house so...... no wait a minute you can shoot from the living room or kitchen window! Hell maybe Itl be like a miniature Tudor Farms. Of course after opening day all bets are off. I also know that a pile of the largest landowners around my way are not going to allow a flood of pilgrims onto their property for a deer busting bonanza. What it will do though is certainly allow them and their people to enjoy a fabulous five year opportunity. My guess is it will probably benefit a bunch of waterman first, at least in Dorchester county. South of Woolford and on down towards to Gootees and over to Crochren. Small landowners will certainly benefit by gaining some additional income that they can use for sure so its a good economic boost.

Bisleyfan44 · Feb 9, 2017

Biggfoot44 said:
What Outrider said, Access . Bag limits are already not a limiting factor. Most hunters have a particular amount of time off from work / desire to sit in blind or stand in middle of winter. Doubling the season later will only have a marginal increase of days afield.

Gotta disagree. What about the hunter who doesn't bowhunt or muzzleloader hunt. He/she has 2 weeks and a couple of days in January. New hunters? Well, they almost always start their hunting life with a gun, and then progress to a bow/muzzleloader. Almost none START with a bow or ML. And the proposal is for a quadrupling of the current season, not doubling.

I would certianly enjoy expanded use of rifles and centerfire handguns, but my fully rifled 12ga is effective well beyond typical whitetail distance. Our neighboring state has lots of areas thet are rifles from stands only, and works well enough for them

Again, disagree. A new or young shooter isn't going to necessarily going to be able to handle a 12 ga with slugs. Give that same person a .243, 6mm, etc and recoil becomes more pleasant. Hunter numbers are declining. We need to bring new hunters into the fold. Not gonna happen if they have to start out with a 12 ga.

Say what you will about Archery, but the biggest potential increases in harvests are from opening up areas that were previously unhuntable, many of which have extremely high deer densities.

I am not familiar with the areas where you live/hunt so this may not correlate there. But here on the shore a few years ago the state acquired literally thousands and thousands of acres of "new" public land previously owned by timber companies. Every one of these is almost vacant of hunters. There are tons of deer there, but absolutely NO hunters to be found. Nobody here seems to want to fool with public land. I drive by 3 of these pieces almost daily all year, nobody hunts them; bow, ml, or gun. The public pieces that have been available for years, like Pocomoke State Forest have a loyal group of folks hunting there, but even those numbers are falling. Like I said, it may be different where you are, but nobody hunts the many thousands of acres already available. More open land ain't gonna help here. You have to give those who do hunt more time to do so. Bow hunters as a whole cannot sufficiently control deer numbers. They don't kill enough.

Reduce archery safety zone to 50yd, increase opportunities in suburban and exurban areas.

Some form of hunter access to undeveloped gov't owned properties.

Incentivize hunter access to private lands currently not hunted. I'm thinking land held by real estate speculators at least as much as actual agricultural properties.

I've hunted land in Accomac County, VA for years which has like 6-8 consecutive weeks of gun season. And guess what? The sky isn't falling, the pumpkins aren't thick as fleas, deer aren't mass slaughtered, bystanders in the house next door aren't shot through the window by accident. Nothing. It just allows VA hunters with little free time more latitude to choose when they can hunt and gives those with more time to hunt, well more time to hunt. WIN WIN!

John from MD · Feb 9, 2017

fabsroman said:
Before I had kids, I was killing a lot of everything.

10+ deer a year
100+ doves a year
100+ geese a year
50+ ducks a year
50+ crows a year

I set goals and kept count. This was back in the day when I cared about limiting out each and every day I was in the field.

I was hunting every weekend and during the weekdays here and there too. I got Lyme in 2009 right after my 2nd child was born. That was some serious BS. I'd wish Lyme on my worst enemy, but that is about it.

So, the first weekend of deer firearms season is right after Thanksgiving. Lots of stuff going on that weekend with the kids and their extended vacation nowadays. For 15+ years prior to marriage, I hunted opening day of deer season. Not so much anymore. Then, there is all of two more weekends for me to try and get out during that 2 week period. I need more opportunity all the way around to get out when I can find a lull in the chaos. I need a larger window for deer, and hunting on Sundays all the way around for everything in season would also be nice. My son wants to come out with me, but it is really hard when he plays soccer on Saturday. I would love to be able to get him in the waterfowl blind on a Sunday when I don't have to coach and he does not have to play. Alas, no waterfowl hunting on Sunday, or even dove hunting on Sunday.

When your kids grow up, you will be out hunting and fishing with therm. :thumbsup:

traveller · Feb 9, 2017

gwchem said:
Because a mile down the road, that slug is moving pretty slow. Rifle ballistics are much better. The argument for shotgun only has to do with topography and density.

I can see a restriction that you have to be in an elevated stand to use a rifle as reasonable.

outrider58 · Feb 9, 2017

Bisleyfan44 said:
I've hunted land in Accomac County, VA for years which has like 6-8 consecutive weeks of gun season. And guess what? The sky isn't falling, the pumpkins aren't thick as fleas, deer aren't mass slaughtered, bystanders in the house next door aren't shot through the window by accident. Nothing. It just allows VA hunters with little free time more latitude to choose when they can hunt and gives those with more time to hunt, well more time to hunt. WIN WIN!

With all due respect, that area doesn't share the same population density as the more crowded 'urban zones'. Deerwise or humanwise. No one's saying the sky will fall, we're just saying there might be better ways to handle the situation.

The first thing Md. needs to give serious consideration to is opening ALL Sundays to hunting...private and public lands. That in and of it's self will almost double hunting 'exposure' during prime hunting months, mainly September-December. Deer don't move much in January and February. Besides, you'd be shooting antlerless bucks and pregnant does.

tsmith1499 · Feb 9, 2017

Farm Bureau is pushing for more Sunday hunting on private property. They have gotten a significant amount of pushback from the horse community. Not sure why because the proposed Sunday hunting bill is only on private property and if your riding your horse across my property without my permission your trespassing. I have yet to have anyone be able to explain to my satisfaction why they are opposed to it.

iH8DemLibz · Feb 9, 2017

tsmith1499 said:
Farm Bureau is pushing for more Sunday hunting on private property. They have gotten a significant amount of pushback from the horse community. Not sure why because the proposed Sunday hunting bill is only on private property and if your riding your horse across my property without my permission your trespassing. I have yet to have anyone be able to explain to my satisfaction why they are opposed to it.

There are horse people that routinely enter the private woods I hunt in.

They think the entire outdoors is theirs.

Biggfoot44 · Feb 9, 2017

Yup, different parts if the state have different situations. In the areas of the state with the most deer/ human interactions ie PG, AA, MoCo, HoCo, Balt Co , access is major issue.

I refered specifically to fully rifled 12ga from my personal experience. My prefered slug is actually moderate in recoil. In her teen years, daughter had no problem with 12ga slug gun with reduced recoil slugs. But 20ga slug guns have at least the range of 12ga, and plenty of grownups prefer them on purpose.

Doco Overboard · Feb 9, 2017

traveller said:
I can see a restriction that you have to be in an elevated stand to use a rifle as reasonable.

You should hunt in VA if you want all that. Plenty of opportunity there for you. What if you cant get in a stand because of disability? If I want to walk into my back field and sit on a stump or be able to take a guy who had his legs blown off in Afganistan that's what i want to do. I don't target my rifles from a stand Im not going to have to do it when hunting.
Most of that shotgun BS is a song and dance for, I cant shoot a buck out of your field when your not there because I cant reach him with a shotgun. There may be merit for that in other areas of the state but not where I live. The flattest areas of the state are rifle counties with the exception of the tourist areas. The problem is winter kill in region B there is non to very little. My kid tells me all the time about the tender feet on Facebook pages that want to dictate or go on about hunter access in local areas to me. There is one solution to that and that is buy land, and then report back in 5 years after your investment. In case anyone did not read my earlier post, I know or am an acquaintance personally or through close friends and family with the people that are talking to Addie. They are not going to allow people on they're land, period. The best properties in the county (Dorchester) and they don't care about being incentivized, or when hunting season is in or out. if you feel differently go and knock on they're door and get written permission. Now I know why Hogan is always poking around down below. I know who he is talking to. Timber owners waterman (the same guys that are catching all your crabs) and Produce Growers. He is a real estate man that just happens to be Governor. Like I said there is no language associated with the type of species, what method of study would be used to determine actual deer density, or increased opportunity for access to public lands including public lands on Sundays. Its not in there. But I am now also a supporter of the proposed regulation changes. 30 straight days of rifle hunting, hell yeah Im going to be doing it not on my property, but where you hunt now in Dorchester county. It wont be a problem because its overflowing with deer. Right? Plenty to go around. Might even do a little trapping and varmint hunting when soccer is in or when I notice lower activity levels if all the stands aren't rented out that day.

Doco Overboard · Feb 9, 2017

iH8DemLibz said:
There are horse people that routinely enter the private woods I hunt in.

They think the entire outdoors is theirs.

Theyll come in handy to get some moving after 40 weeks of rifle season in a five year period. :lol2:

traveller · Feb 9, 2017

Doco Overboard said:
You should hunt in VA if you want all that. Plenty of opportunity there for you. What if you cant get in a stand because of disability? If I want to walk into my back field and sit on a stump or be able to take a guy who had his legs blown off in Afganistan that's what i want to do. I don't target my rifles from a stand Im not going to have to do it when hunting.
Most of that shotgun BS is a song and dance for, I cant shoot a buck out of your field when your not there because I cant reach him with a shotgun. There may be merit for that in other areas of the state but not where I live. The flattest areas of the state are rifle counties with the exception of the tourist areas. The problem is winter kill in region B there is non to very little. My kid tells me all the time about the tender feet on Facebook pages that want to dictate or go on about hunter access in local areas to me. There is one solution to that and that is buy land, and then report back in 5 years after your investment. In case anyone did not read my earlier post, I know or am an acquaintance personally or through close friends and family with the people that are talking to Addie. They are not going to allow people on they're land, period. The best properties in the county (Dorchester) and they don't care about being incentivized, or when hunting season is in or out. if you feel differently go and knock on they're door and get written permission. Now I know why Hogan is always poking around down below. I know who he is talking to. Timber owners waterman (the same guys that are catching all your crabs) and Produce Growers. He is a real estate man that just happens to be Governor. Like I said there is no language associated with the type of species, what method of study would be used to determine actual deer density, or increased opportunity for access to public lands including public lands on Sundays. Its not in there. But I am now also a supporter of the proposed regulation changes. 30 straight days of rifle hunting, hell yeah Im going to be doing it not on my property, but where you hunt now in Dorchester county. It wont be a problem because its overflowing with deer. Right? Plenty to go around. Might even do a little trapping and varmint hunting when soccer is in or when I notice lower activity levels if all the stands aren't rented out that day.

I dont even know what you are trying to say here.

I believe you should be able to use rifle for deer statewide. Oddly enough, the same .243 when pointed at a predator in Charles county is perfectly safe, yet when pointed at a deer it is suddenly 'too dangerous'. The only restriction on rifle hunting I can see as reasonable in the densely populated flat counties would be one where you have to shoot from a stand to ensure that there is a backstop. Other than that, I think it's a silly restriction. A shotgun slug from 151yards away will go through siding and drywall just as well as a rifle projectile.

Clovis · Feb 10, 2017

Well, this is all interesting ideas, but try this one on for a thought.

Bring back the checking stations, require that all hunters take 2 does before the first buck and then see if the population starts getting controlled a little. Too many hunters are only after horns and have a complete distaste for even shooting at a doe. Some will hunt all season and pass on deer that don't meet their standards. We need a change in attitudes about hunting.

Deer rifle season for 8 weeks

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