Maryland Small Arms Range Gripe

MikeCee · Apr 22, 2015

A1Uniform said:
New Glocks will be on the roster in mid-July, per Marlene at MSP.

What's the best method for checking info like this? I'd really like to get a CZ Scorpion EVO although I have serious doubts that it will make it on the Maryland Registry.

Waz · Apr 22, 2015

MikeCee said:
What's the best method for checking info like this? I'd really like to get a CZ Scorpion EVO although I have serious doubts that it will make it on the Maryland Registry.

not to further derail the OPs thread... but i believe the scorpion has already been approved and will be available for sale mid May

and i think 2Asales are taking orders for when they are legal for sale
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=169089

F8L_Funnel · Apr 22, 2015

The sales team there has many problems. I went to get quotes for large group shoots(10-16 people) several times per month. Spoke with a lady on there management team. I could not get a call back or reply to any of my emails. She did say she had just taken over the roll of scheduling and whatever else she said(this was about 18 months ago). Still, no excuse. I made the long drive there. Face to Face meeting. Couldn't be bothered to get back to me. They lost a big opportunity for guaranteed business.
While I waited I did speak with a young guy there at the hand gun counter and he was very pleasant to speak with. He was enthusiastic and his opinions were self described as based on his experience. He didn't bad mouth any of the brands.

outrider58 · Apr 22, 2015

DanGuy48 said:
I think, depending on my mood, that I might just have told him that I didn't ask for his f#%!!/$&g opinion on Glocks, I asked about the status of their approval by the roster board, turned around and walked out. I hate that kind of BS from clowns like that.

Did someone say clowns? Hmmmm? :brows:

TexasBob · Apr 22, 2015

Not sure what is wrong with owners of MSAR, when they first moved to the new facility I got with one of the owners give him the 5 minute spill about being a MDS IP, how it would increase exposure to a larger customer base, increase sales, foot traffic get the paper work for them to apply, greased the works. They may be only game in this area but money is money. Then nothing happen, no rhyme or reason for not taking the next step.

Then we had SB281 BS to deal with, the number of available Fire Arms dropped, big time shortage of Ammo and increase cost. In 2014 things got back to normal price came down, ammo and firearms became available and what happen they raised range fees, then raised transfers fee’s to $100 which is pure BS.

You don’t have to a MBA to see Value in the MDS partnership.The cost is nothing compared to increased exposure which drives reoccurring business.

A lot of bad business practices all most like these guys had never ran a customer dependent operation. Not sure but it almost like the owners of MSAR want the business to fail. :deadhorse:

redeemed.man · Apr 22, 2015

TexasBob said:
Not sure what is wrong with owners of MSAR, when they first moved to the new facility I got with one of the owners give him the 5 minute spill about being a MDS IP, how it would increase exposure to a larger customer base, increase sales, foot traffic get the paper work for them to apply, greased the works. They may be only game in this area but money is money. Then nothing happen, no rhyme or reason for not taking the next step.

Then we had SB281 BS to deal with, the number of available Fire Arms dropped, big time shortage of Ammo and increase cost. In 2014 things got back to normal price came down, ammo and firearms became available and what happen they raised range fees, then raised transfers fee’s to $100 which is pure BS.

You don’t have to a MBA to see Value in the MDS partnership.The cost is nothing compared to increased exposure which drives reoccurring business.

A lot of bad business practices all most like these guys had never ran a customer dependent operation. Not sure but it almost like the owners of MSAR want the business to fail.

Bob, you were at our event last year at MSAR. Not sure if I shared the hell they put us through but there is a reason we are at FreeState this year. Hope you can make it. 4/26/15

http://dottrio.eventbrite.com

DanGuy48 · Apr 23, 2015

outrider58 said:
Did someone say clowns? Hmmmm?

lx1x · Apr 23, 2015

TexasBob said:
Not sure what is wrong with owners of MSAR, when they first moved to the new facility I got with one of the owners give him the 5 minute spill about being a MDS IP, how it would increase exposure to a larger customer base, increase sales, foot traffic get the paper work for them to apply, greased the works. They may be only game in this area but money is money. Then nothing happen, no rhyme or reason for not taking the next step.

Then we had SB281 BS to deal with, the number of available Fire Arms dropped, big time shortage of Ammo and increase cost. In 2014 things got back to normal price came down, ammo and firearms became available and what happen they raised range fees, then raised transfers fee’s to $100 which is pure BS.

You don’t have to a MBA to see Value in the MDS partnership.The cost is nothing compared to increased exposure which drives reoccurring business.

A lot of bad business practices all most like these guys had never ran a customer dependent operation. Not sure but it almost like the owners of MSAR want the business to fail.

From what I know.. They get most of their business from gov contracts.. Ie. Some Leo use their range at certain time. They sell equipment/supply for them also.

TexasBob · Apr 23, 2015

boundlessdyad said:
Bob, you were at our event last year at MSAR. Not sure if I shared the hell they put us through but there is a reason we are at FreeState this year. Hope you can make it. 4/26/15

http://dottrio.eventbrite.com

I know they had you jump through a lot of hoops to have the shoot at MSAR last year, but still I really enjoyed myself, it was a good time. I talked with the three people I know that been working there for years, I’ve known them for over 5 years from the old MSAR location and before I joined MDS. They all agree a lot of the policies are BS and wish they could change things but as they say we’re workers not owners and don’t make the rules. They help out Mdshooters as much as they can but sometimes dumb is just dumb and it can’t be fixed. :sad20:

I would like to go to the Dottrios Shooting Event at FreeState it would be a long drive for me, looks like you got a great bunch of people coming. :party29:

I’m slated to go to the MDS shooting day at Delamrva Sporting Clays on the 2nd of May and my better half has a lot of yard work for me to give me up for 2 weekends in a row. I’d hold out for next year and see what happens. Enjoy yourself and thanks for hosting the event. :thumbsup:

ASTC · Apr 27, 2015

I have been dealing with the Md. Small Arms Range for many years and was disturbed to see the poor service described by the original post. I contacted the manager there and was sent an immediate email response that I would like to share with the "Mdshooters" members. This is the response I received:

"The Management at Maryland Small Arms Range would like to apologize for the behavior and comments made by one of our employees. We do not encourage or support the kind of comments that were made about Glock firearms or support any favoritism of any manufacturer. We are in the business of selling firearms, accessories and equipment. We carry many brands in order to meet the wants and needs of our customers. This type of behavior will not be tolerated. We train our staff to not be biased and to help the customer with any questions they may have. With that being said, our staff member should have answered your question about the approval of the weapon on the handgun roster or politely said he would look into it if he was not sure of the answer. The Management team can only improve and make changes to better our business with the feedback we receive from our Customers. We encourage any and all feedback from our customers. The General Manager, Jim Lucas, can be reached via email at Sales@msar.com or by phone (301) 599-0800."

Dirichlet · Apr 27, 2015

Hakuna Matata said:
...it's the only gun store anywhere near my home that I'm willing to patronize...

There's a gun shop about 10 minutes from my house. MSAR is about 15-20 minutes. I drive the 75+ minutes to Engage Armament for a reason. Just my $.02

Turbohugh · Apr 27, 2015

boundlessdyad said:
Tony would never say something that dumb. And I believe he is from Lebanon not Israel. He is a good guy and one hell of a shot with any weapon you hand him.

My guess would be the brown haired guy with glasses and bushy mustache who wears his pants up around his chest. LOL

Tony loves Glocks. He gave me the Get a Glock speech many times.
The Old guy with the bushy mustache seems to like them all, as long as you buy one LOL.

My bet is the bald hot headed guy. He seems like he could be a tweaker. I've seen him point and fire an [unloaded] revolver towards the front of the store where customers were standing and turning in their equipment. When I questioned him about the unsafe direction and unsafe action [he fired several times] he had just taken [I was waiting on Rifle], he got mad and yelled 'It's unloaded'. When I retorted 'That's what all unintentional dischargers say before they shoot someone by accident' he really got fussy and told me I was lucky he didn't 'throw me out'. OF course I snitched on him to the Asian guy with the wierd ear piercings, but not sure what happened after that.

Now it was a busy as hell saturday and this guy who was joking with his friends is squeezing off towards the front [actually sighting people and then shooting his 'empty' gun at them], and this pissed me off, however, I do not blame the entire staff for this idiot.

lx1x · Apr 27, 2015

Turbohugh said:
Tony loves Glocks. He gave me the Get a Glock speech many times.
The Old guy with the bushy mustache seems to like them all, as long as you buy one LOL.

My bet is the bald hot headed guy. He seems like he could be a tweaker. I've seen him point and fire an [unloaded] revolver towards the front of the store where customers were standing and turning in their equipment. When I questioned him about the unsafe direction and unsafe action [he fired several times] he had just taken [I was waiting on Rifle], he got mad and yelled 'It's unloaded'. When I retorted 'That's what all unintentional dischargers say before they shoot someone by accident' he really got fussy and told me I was lucky he didn't 'throw me out'. OF course I snitched on him to the Asian guy with the wierd ear piercings, but not sure what happened after that.

Now it was a busy as hell saturday and this guy who was joking with his friends is squeezing off towards the front [actually sighting people and then shooting his 'empty' gun at them], and this pissed me off, however, I do not blame the entire staff for this idiot.

Asian guy is Ray.. One of the few good guys at MSAR.

beretta_maven · Apr 27, 2015

Unfortunately, these types of "sales" people seem to pop up all over. I took a couple of friends into The Tackle Box in Lexington Park not long ago to look at a couple of guns for my friend's wife (NOTE: I would never actually buy from them because their prices are very inflated). The kid behind the counter started going off about the "only gun to buy was an XD" and how the XD out-performed every other gun on the market. Everytime I tried to show her a potential gun that she might like, the obnoxious kid started spouting off again about how she wanted and XD and nothing else. Now, I've owned three XDs myself (XD9, XDM9 and an XDS9) and sold them all. Are they bad guns? No, but they weren't good for me. The kid should have just shut his mouth and let the lady look at all the guns that she was interested in trying out in her hand. I wanted to slap the guy...

Hakuna Matata · May 1, 2015

It wasn't Tony, I've spoken with Tony several times and he's the reason I bought my DPMS recon from MSAR, simply because he was a good guy and we had good conversation. So I decided to buy the gun for no other reason than that and it looked cool.

I think the bushy haired guy is Jim. He's a retired police officer and a really helpful guy. I talk to him a bit whenever I visit and he's always even tempered, but usually very busy helping other staff members.

I purposefully omitted and descriptive details about the salesman because I really don't want him to lose his job (even though I said I would fire him!!!). What I really want is to walk into a gun store and be served by a professional with a professional attitude. Not some jerk with a chip on his shoulder and an axe to grind.

And thanks for answering my question about the roster. I really want the G40 but the reality is I probably won't ever shoot it.

mxrider · May 2, 2015

The salesperson involved has been identified by management and has been spoken to so hopefully this doesn't occur again.

NOBE shooter · May 3, 2015

Not a big fan of Glocks myself. I wouldn't say they a junk, just think you can do a lot better with a Beretta or Sig, course I don't get the appeal of striker fire. Glocks seem like the Honda or Apple of guns. They have a super loyal base, and they are the best just because, even when they aren't.

That being said, not a fan of the sales/customer service at MSAR. My buddy was buying a Glock 17 and while we were there I asked if they had a Beretta PX4 in stock. They said no one carried that gun, it was back ordered for months. Literally bought it Waldorf the next day. Worst of all this was during the huge backlog with the state police. The place I bought my gun had a 30 day release policy, my buddy had to wait 6 months. They actually made him come in and get the 16 round mags before the 10 round rule took effect, but wouldn't give him the gun.

Sales aside, they need to figure out how to manage their range better. I get there is super high demand, but I tried to call and get my name on the two hour wait list, and they said I had to be there in person to get on the list. Really, with a two hour wait? It isn't like a 20 minute wait, 2 hours is ample time for me to drive there, and pretty unreasonable for them to expect me to sit around at their place.

JohnnyE · May 3, 2015

I am not a fan of the way they operate the range from a safety perspective. I was hit by a substantial bullet fragment (about 20 gr.) that came back from the fellows shooting from the lane immediately to my left. It broke the skin and stuck in my right bicep region. It was hot as hell and I knocked it out to the floor. I picked it up and went to report the incident to the front desk, expecting that they would inspect the range to determine if anything was amiss with the baffles. Nope. Business as usual. No cease fire, just carry on. I didn't give a s__t about a refund for range time or anything. The fact that they did NOTHING to look for a safety defect told me all I need to know, and I have not been back since. I let everyone know what happened, and I recommend they stay away as well. The fact that they did nothing to ensure the safety of shooters after a ricochet was reported is a real people problem.

Mr.Blue · May 4, 2015

Both are great guns, but M&Ps are MUCH prettier than Glocks. At least I think so.

Chris0nllyn · May 14, 2015

I went to MSAR this past Saturday.

Got there a bit after 10am (when they open) and got a rifle lane right away.

I was shooting my .22, 9mm, and newly built AR.

I go through a box of 9mm, a bunch of .22, and move to my AR. Load a round, fire, then.....nothing.

BCG is stuck like a mofo. I dick around with it for awhile, and can't get it. Finally, I ask the guy in the lane next to me for help. (He looked to be military/LE and was shooting a BEAUTIFUL AR). We finally get the BCG out (and the other round that loaded).

Long story short, something is up with my BCG and it won't lock all the way into the chamber.

I would like to thank that guy (won't say your name) if you're reading this. He let me shoot his Sig Sauer AR w/ EoTech and magnifier and took his own time to help out a stranger.

As far as the range and employees, I walked up, gave my license, paid, etc. The guy (black guy, don't know his name) was cordial and nice as can be.

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