5.56mm Pistol Question?

deerassassin22 · Jan 30, 2019

So I'm looking at getting a Springfield Saint Pistol in 5.56mm. See the link below. And then add A muzzle Brake that doubles to attach a suppressor and still not make it a class III item?

Pistol: https://www.springfield-armory.com/products/saint-ar-15-pistol-5-56/

https://www.advanced-armament.com/Blackout-51T-Muzzle-Brake_p_497.html Muzzle Brake

outrider58 · Jan 30, 2019

I'm sorry. Are you asking, by adding the new muzzle brake, will it make the pistol into a class III item. It will not. A pistol is a pistol. Nothing more, nothing less.
(I hope I understood the question)

deerassassin22 · Jan 30, 2019

Essentially yes, My plan if legal is to take the factory weapon just have it threaded for the mentioned brake and then attach my can to it without making it a legal debacle

knastera · Jan 30, 2019

There are two questions:
1) Is the Saint on the roster?
2) Does attaching the muzzle break change the classification?

I know for sure that the answer to 1 is yes. I'm not sure about 2. My AR pistol has a forward blast deflector (just like the Saint). I'm curious to find out the authoritative answer (not that it impacts me any more, I live in the free Commonwealth of Pennsylvania).

deerassassin22 · Jan 30, 2019

So im my reading an SBR is less then 26inches in total length.

The Saint Pistol is 26.5 OAL and already classified as a pistol.

Since I'm not removing any length I don't see any issues just needed someone to check lol. If I welded or pinned the brake on I would actually add to the OAL of the weapon and the OAL of the Barrel.

danb · Jan 30, 2019

ok, i'll go there

deerassassin22 said:
Essentially yes, My plan if legal is to take the factory weapon just have it threaded for the mentioned brake and then attach my can to it without making it a legal debacle

deerassassin22 said:
So im my reading an SBR is less then 26inches in total length.

The Saint Pistol is 26.5 OAL and already classified as a pistol.

Since I'm not removing any length I don't see any issues just needed someone to check lol. If I welded or pinned the brake on I would actually add to the OAL of the weapon and the OAL of the Barrel.

A pistol with a suppressor is still a pistol.

1. not sure why you would need to thread the barrel. is it not already threaded under that "blast diverter that pushes sound, concussion and debris forward towards the target" (lol, quoting) https://www.springfield-armory.com/products/saint-ar-15-pistol-5-56/

2. dont recommend pinning/welding the suppressor specific brake. a-they suck; b- you might want to change it up in the future, like maybe when you sell it; c- depending who does it, they might overheat the barrel and **** it up. There is no upside to permanently affixing it.

Now, maybe if you want to permanently affix the suppressor and throw a stock on it, turning it into an integrally suppressed rifle, I could be persuaded of that logic.

Now, if you permanently affix the supressor, but dont throw a rifle stock on it, you still dont have a class III, I think you have a "firearm," i think. but, throw a stock on it who cares.

fred55 · Jan 30, 2019

Do not put a rifle stock on an AR pistol, that is forbidden. Also do not put a vertical forward grip on it. Now, if you convert the AR pistol to an AR rifle that is a different story. fred55

Pinecone · Jan 30, 2019

fred55 said:
Do not put a rifle stock on an AR pistol, that is forbidden. Also do not put a vertical forward grip on it. Now, if you convert the AR pistol to an AR rifle that is a different story. fred55

Not exactly.

You can put a rifle stock on an AR pistol legally, I have done it. IF you have a filed a Form 1 and received the tax stamp to make your AR pistol into a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR).

What you may NOT do, it change a rifle into a pistol. Once a rifle, always a rifle. An SBR is a rifle, so you do that,

fred55 · Jan 30, 2019

Pinecone said:
Not exactly.

You can put a rifle stock on an AR pistol legally, I have done it. IF you have a filed a Form 1 and received the tax stamp to make your AR pistol into a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR).

Correct, after the conversion it is no longer an AR pistol; it is at that point a SBR. Now you follow the SBR regulations regarding inter-state travel with it (if you travel with it.) The AR pistol and SBR have not so subtle differences besides the tax stamp. fred55

deerassassin22 · Jan 30, 2019

Thanks Gents,
From what I researched and have seen in a few videos it does not appear to have a threaded cap on the 5.56mm version the 300 blackout does on the other hand.

fred55 · Jan 30, 2019

Spend a little time deciding which of an AR pistol or short barrel rifle SBR is best for you. Each type can be found in multiple calibers. Unfortunately MD’s HBAR requirement makes the choices more restrictive. I really enjoy my AR pistol. fred55

danb · Jan 30, 2019

deerassassin22 said:
Thanks Gents,
From what I researched and have seen in a few videos it does not appear to have a threaded cap on the 5.56mm version the 300 blackout does on the other hand.

The whole muzzle device comes off, says so here:

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/02/26/review-springfield-saint-ar-15-pistol/

so if you wish to opt out for a simple flash hider or different muzzle device you absolutely can

I find it deeply hard to believe that muzzle device does not unscrew, so I had to google it. Now, it may be on there with a zillion ft-lbs of force and red loctite or something. Be sure to use a reaction rod and a vice to avoid damaging the upper.

Educated guess, the muzzle device is on top of 1/2x24 tpi threads same as any other 556 AR. Just email them. Id bet a bunch of money they say muzzle device comes off revealing 1/2x24 tpi threads. **

Issue you will run into is not the lack of threaded barrel, its handguard clearance. If the muzzle threads poke out about 5/8" or more from the handguard, you are gtg. that is, the end of the barrel needs to be about .625" (ish, maybe 1/2" depending) longer than the handguard. If not, then the handguard inside diameter needs to be ~1.5 in or more. Otherwise, your suppressor may not thread onto the barrel because its too wide to fit under the handguard.

** lets put it this way: if that muzzle device does not come off you not into threading the barrel, you are into cutting off the muzzle device and then threading the barrel. avoid that at all costs. Dont buy.

outrider58 · Jan 31, 2019

OP would be better off just building his own pistol...the way he wants it.

You owe me 2 cents.

Hawkeye · Jan 31, 2019

Ok, there have been a few misunderstandings in here, so I'll do my best to clear up a little.

fred55 said:
Do not put a rifle stock on an AR pistol, that is forbidden.

That is correct, IF the barrel is less than 16", because you'd be making an SBR. If you put a 16"+ barrel on it with the stock, that's fine. Alternatively, you could file a Form 1 and once that's approved, you can make an SBR by attaching a stock and a short barrel at the same time.

Also do not put a vertical forward grip on it.

Actually, in this case putting a VFG on it is fine, as the OAL of this particular firearm is over 26", which makes it classified as a "firearm" and not a "pistol," and it's fine to have a VFG on a "firearm."

Pinecone said:
What you may NOT do, it change a rifle into a pistol. Once a rifle, always a rifle.

That's not technically correct. The rule is "rifle FIRST, rifle forever, pistol FIRST you can switch back and forth." So in this case, if someone had one of these Saint pistols, they could then attach a 16"+ barrel and a stock, making it a rifle, and then later switch back to a pistol as much as they wanted. You just can't have the stock and a <16" barrel on it at the same time unless you file a Form 1 and make it into a legal SBR.

deerassassin22 said:
Thanks Gents,
From what I researched and have seen in a few videos it does not appear to have a threaded cap on the 5.56mm version the 300 blackout does on the other hand.

If you're looking at the pistol that you posted, with the 7.5" barrel and the flash can, that barrel is almost certainly threaded in 1/2x28. If you're looking at muzzle devices for a suppressor, make sure that you're looking at ones that are compatible with suppressors which are rated for use on a 7.5" barrel. A lot of companies won't warranty a 5.56 can on a barrel shorter than 10.5" or so. Some do, but just be aware of that when you make your choice.

Pinecone · Feb 1, 2019

Hawkeye said:
That's not technically correct. The rule is "rifle FIRST, rifle forever, pistol FIRST you can switch back and forth." So in this case, if someone had one of these Saint pistols, they could then attach a 16"+ barrel and a stock, making it a rifle, and then later switch back to a pistol as much as they wanted. You just can't have the stock and a <16" barrel on it at the same time unless you file a Form 1 and make it into a legal SBR.

True, however having a rifle and a short barreled upper could get you afoul of the concept of constructive intent.

Hawkeye · Feb 1, 2019

Pinecone said:
True, however having a rifle and a short barreled upper could get you afoul of the concept of constructive intent.

Not if that rifle was first a pistol and you have a legal purpose for the parts other than making an SBR.

outrider58 · Feb 1, 2019

Hawkeye said:
Not if that rifle was first a pistol and you have a legal purpose for the parts other than making an SBR.

Yup. Slide the stock off and you now own a pistol lower.

knastera · Feb 3, 2019

outrider58 said:
OP would be better off just building his own pistol...the way he wants it.

You owe me 2 cents.

Agreed. With the budget to buy a Saint, you could build the exact pistol you want with no compromises.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Boats · Feb 3, 2019

OP:. Considering your confusion level you have had with the difference between a rifle and a pistol, muzzle devices, etc, I wouldn't recommend building an AR pistol, sounds like an NFA violation waiting to happen.

5.56mm Pistol Question?

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