2 questions on OAL...

ARMERICA · May 6, 2017

Searched the forums and kept finding that SBR OAL has to be 29". I'm good with that, however I have 2 questions I couldn't get answered through searches...

1st topic:
SBR OAL has to be 29" in MD. I am building a 300 that will have a 9" barrel BCM 9" flutedd 300 barrel). Searches indicated a 10.2" (or 10.3" depending on what thread you pull your info from) will make the cut, but I'll be under that by quite a bit so I'm guessing I'll need to pin/ weld a can adapter for starters (which I really don't want to do). Also I see to use an ACS(-L) stock I'm reading (have one but don't want to use it). Will the UBR stock work the same way?

2nd topic:
A pistol build reaches 26" OAL and you can use a VFG instead of an AFG. Is that OAL INCLUDE any overhand (meaning measurable extension) provided by the stabilizer (in my case a KAK Shockwave) or is it ONLY to the end of the buffer tube (ie, if my KAK shockwave extends past the buffer tube, is is ok to include that added length and measure from it to the end of the barrel (less muzzle devise)?

I hope all that made sense. Thanks for any input.

mopar92 · May 6, 2017

For NFA OAL the muzzle device does NOT need to be pinned and welded.

A UBR stock may be passable providing it is the same length as an ACS L. Magpul also makes extended length buttpads.

OAL for NFA is measured with everything extended and attached.

ARMERICA · May 6, 2017

mopar92 said:
For NFA OAL the muzzle device does NOT need to be pinned and welded.

A UBR stock may be passable providing it is the same length as an ACS L. Magpul also makes extended length buttpads.

OAL for NFA is measured with everything extended and attached.

I understand that the NFA OAL doesn't require a muzzle devise to be pinned nd welded, but I'm more trying to find out how anyone has reached the OAL mark using a 9" barrel. I'll look and see if they have extended pads for the UBR.

ARMERICA · May 7, 2017

SOB... did I just learn that the entended pagpul stock pad fits darn near all their stocks? How did I not pick up on this before?!!? Oh the shame.

tc617 · May 7, 2017

For the 2nd topic only...

It should include the entire Shockwave to the end of the barrel minus any non-permanently attached muzzle devices.

Yes, once it exceeds 26" it is no longer concealable and not considered a handgun so you may attach a vertical forward grip.

Visit Franklin Armory's website and take a look at a firearm called the XO26. They also have the ATF letters on their website which explain why a VFG may be attached.

The top is my AR's that is greater than 26" with a SIG brace and a VFG.

The bottom is my pre-SB281 SBRs. I'll have to look at the stamp but I believe the OAL was somewhere around 23.5"

ARMERICA · May 7, 2017

tc617 said:
For the 2nd topic only...

It should include the entire Shockwave to the end of the barrel minus any non-permanently attached muzzle devices.

Yes, once it exceeds 26" it is no longer concealable and not considered a handgun so you may attach a vertical forward grip.

Visit Franklin Armory's website and take a look at a firearm called the XO26. They also have the ATF letters on their website which explain why a VFG may be attached.

The top is my AR's that is greater than 26" with a SIG brace and a VFG.

The bottom is my pre-SB281 SBRs. I'll have to look at the stamp but I believe the OAL was somewhere around 23.5"

Thanks sir, I appreciate that! :thumbsup:

ARMERICA · May 7, 2017

How does the handguard relate to the barrel on OAL? Or doesnt it? My build with the 9in barrel will be tucked into a MI 10in SP series handguard. Does the length of the handguard in such a case contribute to PAL beyond the barrel?

rayrevolver · May 7, 2017

Handguard does not count towards OAL.

My 9" build meets the OAL using the Vltor A5 Buffer System (0.75" longer than a carbine tube) and the Magpul ACS-L stock. Not sure what butt pad I have, but its not the extended one.

I was using the Vltor A5 anyways, so I got lucky when I started down the SBR path. For others, that is going to cost you about $100. I just needed to find a ACS-L or the Vltor Emod to get me to OAL.

outrider58 · May 7, 2017

Not sure what can you are using OP, but make sure it can handle the pressures produced by barrels shorter than 10" for your SBR. Some can not.

Sticky · May 7, 2017

tc617 said:
Yes, once it exceeds 26" it is no longer concealable and not considered a handgun so you may attach a vertical forward grip.

Just a minor point... it isn't concealable UNLESS you ATTEMPT to conceal it, then it would be a violation. Minor point, but that was made clear to me in a response letter from the ATF on this very question :lol2:

ashershapiro · May 7, 2017

ARMERICA said:
How does the handguard relate to the barrel on OAL? Or doesnt it? My build with the 9in barrel will be tucked into a MI 10in SP series handguard. Does the length of the handguard in such a case contribute to PAL beyond the barrel?

It doesn't count. I went down that road a few years ago.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Sticky · May 7, 2017

No, it has no bearing.. ATF measures OAL with a stick... they will remove any removable muzzle devices, insert the stick til it hits the bolt face, mark it, remove it and measure from there... OAL is to the end of the muzzle of the barrel, period...

ARMERICA · May 7, 2017

outrider58 said:
Not sure what can you are using OP, but make sure it can handle the pressures produced by barrels shorter than 10" for your SBR. Some can not.

This has been a concern of mine. I'll have to double check since I've swapped things around and decided to go with a 9" barrel, but I think the Griffin can will. I just need to make sure there is room for the over the barrel muzzle devise on a 9" barrel with pistol length gas.

ARMERICA · May 7, 2017

Sticky said:
No, it has no bearing.. ATF measures OAL with a stick... they will remove any removable muzzle devices, insert the stick til it hits the bolt face, mark it, remove it and measure from there... OAL is to the end of the muzzle of the barrel, period...

I swear this is tragically humorous to me... a muzzle devise or a handguard that can be removed has no bearing on the OAL - but that rubber stock pad on the back that gets screwed on and is more easily removeable, well that's all ok. Oh how I'd love to be behind closed doors to see exactly how they make these these decisions. I'm swear I wouldn't be shocked if I saw them spinning a bottle, or playing pin the regulation on the donkey.

Good info, thanks for sharing!

ARMERICA · May 7, 2017

rayrevolver said:
Handguard does not count towards OAL.

My 9" build meets the OAL using the Vltor A5 Buffer System (0.75" longer than a carbine tube) and the Magpul ACS-L stock. Not sure what butt pad I have, but its not the extended one.

I was using the Vltor A5 anyways, so I got lucky when I started down the SBR path. For others, that is going to cost you about $100. I just needed to find a ACS-L or the Vltor Emod to get me to OAL.

Perfect info! Thanks so much for sharing. I have an ACS-L on an FN shotgun. I could certainly swap some things around and put that stock on my build after it's approved as an SBR (I've only got a pistol tube on it currently). I also have a VLTOR stock on another but it isn't the Emod. I'm actually not crazy about either stock but when push comes to shove I would go with either to complete the build. The other option is to look into the YHM cans. They have a longer #3302 (if I remember correctly)... if their cans can handle the 9" barrel I may go with their silencer. That muzzle devise is a little longer, and I might go with the pin/weld knowing I could through a thicker pad on my CTR (the stock I was going to put on this one).

To all - THANK YOU for the great info! I feel like I have what I need to finish my planning and be comfortable at least getting the 9" barrel when I'm ready.

2 questions on OAL...

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