recoil pulling lead bullets out of the case

jaybee · Jun 23, 2016

came across this and never heard of this happening - did anybody experience this

look closely at the front of the cylinder in the picture and the article

http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=8584

smdub · Jun 23, 2016

Typical if you don't properly crimp. Can be an issue w/ magnums even with a good crimp (they need a GOOD crimp)

Magnumite · Jun 23, 2016

I've never experienced creep so severe it tied up the pistol. I have had it occur with older cases from work hardening or using a FCD with heavy loads enough to noticably effect group and ballistics. Getting the crimp at the proper 'depth' in the cannular can help eliminate that inertial bullet creep, too.

j_h_smith · Jun 23, 2016

Wow, can't say I've ever seen that.

dist1646 · Jun 23, 2016

smdub said:
Typical if you don't properly crimp. Can be an issue w/ magnums even with a good crimp (they need a GOOD crimp)

This!

TomisinMd · Jun 24, 2016

Looks like someone needs a little process work, and final inspection!

iH8DemLibz · Jun 24, 2016

A healthy "Roll" crimp will stop that.

sgt23preston · Jun 24, 2016

TomisinMd said:
Looks like someone needs a little process work, and final inspection!

This is why I inspect every round with a case gauge BEFORE I take them to the gun range...

http://www.brownells.com/reloading/measuring-tools/case-gauges-headspace-tools/wilson-case-gage-prod33287.aspx

smdub · Jun 24, 2016

sgt23preston said:
This is why I inspect every round with a case gauge BEFORE I take them to the gun range...

http://www.brownells.com/reloading/measuring-tools/case-gauges-headspace-tools/wilson-case-gage-prod33287.aspx

A case gauge wont catch a weak (or even completely missing) crimp.

jimbobborg · Jun 24, 2016

smdub said:
A case gauge wont catch a weak (or even completely missing) crimp.

My case gauges won't pass rounds without the proper crimp.

outrider58 · Jun 24, 2016

jimbobborg said:
My case gauges won't pass rounds without the proper crimp.

And what brand/type might they be?

Biggfoot44 · Jun 24, 2016

More going on than just the crimp per se, it is the overall case neck tension.

Factors include :

Bullet dia
Neck id after expanding
Depth and shape of crimp groove
And finally the Crimp itself

Also with heavy loads of slow burning powder in magnum loads , insufficient case neck tension can effect ignition and consistency of burn even if not blatently bullet creep.

Extreme bullet creep like in the pic are most common in combinitations very heavy recoil, either from mega powerful ctgs, or very light guns in "normal" cals.

BUFF7MM · Jun 24, 2016

outrider58 said:
And what brand/type might they be?

I'm curious also to see if it's different than Sgt preston's link.
I've got a Lyman multi caliber block style that the 38 special and the 357 magnum are in the same hole and it definately won't check roll crimp in the 38 special.

kalister1 · Jun 24, 2016

I did NOT have enough case tension on my 40 S&W and 45 ACP loads. I bought -.001" size dies and that issue went away.

jimbobborg · Jun 24, 2016

outrider58 said:
And what brand/type might they be?

Wilson for the 40, the 10mm, and the 9mm. If I don't put enough crimp on the rounds I check, they don't seat properly in the checkers.

jimbobborg · Jun 24, 2016

Buff7mm said:
I'm curious also to see if it's different than Sgt preston's link.
I've got a Lyman multi caliber block style that the 38 special and the 357 magnum are in the same hole and it definately won't check roll crimp in the 38 special.

I tried using the Wilson 10mm case gauge for my 40 ammunition and it doesn't quite work right.

Outrider, if there isn't enough crimp on my pistol rounds, the rim of the cartridge stays above the rim of the gauge. If I apply more crimp, the cartridge rims are level with the rim of the gauge.

BUFF7MM · Jun 24, 2016

jimbobborg said:
I tried using the Wilson 10mm case gauge for my 40 ammunition and it doesn't quite work right.

Definately see that not working since the 10mm/40S&W, as with the 9mm Luger, 45ACP, and so on, head spacing off the case mouth, hence the need for a taper crimp. I figure with revolver rounds head spacing on the rim is why my gauge uses the same hole for my 38special/357 magnum and 44 special/44 magnum. :thumbsup:

smdub · Jun 24, 2016

jimbobborg said:
Outrider, if there isn't enough crimp on my pistol rounds, the rim of the cartridge stays above the rim of the gauge. If I apply more crimp, the cartridge rims are level with the rim of the gauge.

Do your resized, but unloaded brass fit in the case gauge? A case gauge should be cut to the saami spec which can't test crimp. Im wondering if your loaded rounds w/ not enough crimp that fail still have some flare from the powder/bullet load stage. Those may be outside the spec.

jimbobborg · Jun 24, 2016

smdub said:
Do your resized, but unloaded brass fit in the case gauge? A case gauge should be cut to the saami spec which can't test crimp. Im wondering if your loaded rounds w/ not enough crimp that fail still have some flare from the powder/bullet load stage. Those may be outside the spec.

I'll check when I get home. BTW, when I do the plunk test with the barrels, the rounds that don't quite fit in the case gauge will fit in the chamber.

smdub · Jun 24, 2016

The saami chamber spec is larger than the ammo spec. Take 9mm for example:
http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Pistol/9mm Luger - 9mm Luger +P.pdf
You can see the chamber is cut at a minimum to be about a thou larger than a max cartridge is allowed to be at the mouth. It allows for carbon/dirt, easy of feed/eject/etc. A case gauge should be testing the cartridge spec. If it goes into that it should fit into ANY gun. A fired case wont go into a wilson gage. The chamber can be cut WELL over the sammi limits. So even something that doesn't fit into the gauge might well chamber in SOME guns just fine.

What is interesting I just found is that the 9mm spec (picked it at random) actually specs a little taper in the nose of the cartridge. If you look at something like a 357 like the OP's orig revolver problem there is no such taper. But only subsonic 38spl wadcutters could prob get by w/ zero crimp out of a revolver

http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Pistol/357 Magnum.pdf

recoil pulling lead bullets out of the case

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