"Maryland Designated Collector" - HQL

fxk · Jun 2, 2020

Hi folks,
I have spent the last hour or two reading stickies and other (very long) threads, and have searched the site to no avail. I know this has been answered somewhere, but I have not been able to locate the answer. So I ask for forgiveness for a redundant question in advance...

Simple question: Is an already approved HQL a pre-requisite to being approved for a "Maryland Designated Collector" designation?

Logic and law seldom meet when the subject is Maryland firearms.

Most information I found blur the line between the federal "Curios and Relics" license and Maryland's "Maryland Designated Collector" designation. As we know, both are quite different, with the federal license being more encompassing.

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Jun 2, 2020

It's not a pre-requisite. Whether you already have an HQL has no bearing on your obtaining your HQL. You can have an HQL and not be a collector but you have the option of requesting collector status allowing the purchase of more than one regulated firearm per month.

If you fill out online with MSP to purchase a regulated firearm you have to answer the question whether you are a designated collector but it has no bearing on the HQL itself.

Occam · Jun 2, 2020

The two have nothing to do with each other.

On the MD-identified collector status, it simply allows you to avoid the one-handgun-month limit. It’s irrelevant unless you have your HQL, because until you have it, you’re at zero handguns per month.

The collector letter doesn’t take long to get. Just wait until you’ve got your HQL. Having the flavor of FFL that lets you buy old (enough) guns directly is an entirely different concept and process.

Hi-Torque · Jun 2, 2020

There's nothing in the application that states the HQL must be pre-appproved to get the Designated Collector Status. Of course as you know you'll still need the HQL to buy a modern handgun, the DCS does not work in place of it.

But items like a regulated AR lower receiver that require a 77r, do not require the HQL. A C&R handgun requires a 77r, but no HQL. Those are 2 instances where you could benefit from a DCS, without having an HQL.

A designated collector status letter is essentially another background check, to allow a collector to only take one current background check, when purchasing 2 or more items at once, instead of one background check per purchase. Makes sense right?

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Jun 2, 2020

Hi-Torque said:
Makes sense right?

This is Maryland...remember? Common sense and the MGA have a tenuous connection at best but are essentially mutually exclusive.

But I know you're being facetious and not asking a serious question.

fxk · Jun 2, 2020

Thanks. I knew I could count on you.
The reason for a MDA is that as I understand it, there is more flexibility in the transportation of a regulated firearm, i.e., before MDA it is to/from range or to/from shop/gunsmith as the only two reasons to have one in the vehicle. With a MDA, I could legally take one/bunch to a friends house for show-and-tell.

daggo66 · Jun 2, 2020

fxk said:
Thanks. I knew I could count on you.
The reason for a MDA is that as I understand it, there is more flexibility in the transportation of a regulated firearm, i.e., before MDA it is to/from range or to/from shop/gunsmith as the only two reasons to have one in the vehicle. With a MDA, I could legally take one/bunch to a friends house for show-and-tell.

False. The one and only purpose is to allow the purchase of more than one regulated firearm per month.

Ammo Jon · Jun 2, 2020

TheOriginalMexicanBob said:
Whether you already have an HQL has no bearing on your obtaining your HQL.

How many HQLs does one need?

303_enfield · Jun 2, 2020

daggo66 said:
False. The one and only purpose is to allow the purchase of more than one regulated firearm per month.

WRONG! Private showing of firearms is one of the reasons.

Tried to find the old MDC ap. it was listed on it.
All I can find is:

MD Criminal law:

§4–203.

(5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector’s gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

An from a Criminal Lawyer site (Seth Okin) :
A Maryland gun collector can transport guns from their collection, private and public, for an exhibition. A handgun can be transported by a person to Maryland real estate that a person owns or leases or where the person resides or to a business establishment that a person owns or leased. Otherwise, a person who does not meet one of the above exceptions is prohibited from transporting, shipping, or moving a firearm in any way or else they risk arrest.

Part in red was on the old MDC form or info.

rbird7282 · Jun 2, 2020

Hi-Torque said:
There's nothing in the application that states the HQL must be pre-appproved to get the Designated Collector Status. Of course as you know you'll still need the HQL to buy a modern handgun, the DCS does not work in place of it.

But items like a regulated AR lower receiver that require a 77r, do not require the HQL. A C&R handgun requires a 77r, but no HQL. Those are 2 instances where you could benefit from a DCS, without having an HQL.

A designated collector status letter is essentially another background check, to allow a collector to only take one current background check, when purchasing 2 or more items at once, instead of one background check per purchase. Makes sense right?

Has nothing to do with background checks. Without a DC letter you can buy two handguns at once, but then you’d have to wait 60 days before buying another. The only purpose of the DC letter is to remove the 30 day wait between purchases.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

fxk · Jun 4, 2020

303_enfield said:
WRONG! Private showing of firearms is one of the reasons.

Tried to find the old MDC ap. it was listed on it.
All I can find is:

MD Criminal law:

§4–203.

(5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector’s gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

An from a Criminal Lawyer site (Seth Okin) :
A Maryland gun collector can transport guns from their collection, private and public, for an exhibition. A handgun can be transported by a person to Maryland real estate that a person owns or leases or where the person resides or to a business establishment that a person owns or leased. Otherwise, a person who does not meet one of the above exceptions is prohibited from transporting, shipping, or moving a firearm in any way or else they risk arrest.

Part in red was on the old MDC form or info.

Somewhere along the line, this (or something similar) was what I had read and understood. (or was it something I WANTED to understand??)

I'm still applying for the MDC - can't hurt. Given that searches still turn up the additional transportation freedom, I will assume the regulation is still in place.

A bit distressing that there is some controversy here about what the MDC allows. I'm not surprised, as the MD law regulating firearms is what software engineers call spaghetti code. A tangled mess. The cynic in me believes this is by design.

An article I stumbled across the other day:

Reynolds: You are probably breaking the law right now
When lawmakers don't even know how many laws exist, how can citizens be expected to follow them?
Glenn Harlan Reynolds

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/03/29/crime-law-criminal-unfair-column/70630978/

SkiPatrolDude · Jun 4, 2020

Only prerequisite is that you have at least 1 regulated firearm, registered in Maryland. If you satisfy this requirement, then expect an approval email within a few weeks.

Your wallet and wife will hate you. I did it merely to remove the ridiculous and infringing policy of 1 regulated per 30 days, and to also provide an additional provision for legal transport. It's too easy to do for everyone not to have it.

The most difficult part is going to a FedEx store to have the document notarized.

And for the reason field on the document, I put "for all legal purposes".

SkiPatrolDude · Jun 4, 2020

Hi-Torque said:
There's nothing in the application that states the HQL must be pre-appproved to get the Designated Collector Status. Of course as you know you'll still need the HQL to buy a modern handgun, the DCS does not work in place of it.

But items like a regulated AR lower receiver that require a 77r, do not require the HQL. A C&R handgun requires a 77r, but no HQL. Those are 2 instances where you could benefit from a DCS, without having an HQL.

A designated collector status letter is essentially another background check, to allow a collector to only take one current background check, when purchasing 2 or more items at once, instead of one background check per purchase. Makes sense right?

A bit of a convoluted and misleading way of explaining it. It doesn't "turn two checks into one". It literally just lets you purchase more than 1 firearm at the same time, MSP does the background check, confirms you are a collector, and off you go. You can purchase firearms 1 day, or X days apart, and MSP will allow for 2 background checks, and two transfers (or more) within the 30 day period.

Nothing to do with the amount of background checks required or administered.

For non collectors, an FFL is allowed to sell 2 firearms to you at a single time, but then you may not take transfer of another for 60 days. A single background check is used in this instance, just as a single check is used for an MDC with multiple regulated purchases.

dblas · Jun 4, 2020

303_enfield said:
WRONG! Private showing of firearms is one of the reasons.

Tried to find the old MDC ap. it was listed on it.
All I can find is:

MD Criminal law:

§4–203.

(5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector’s gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

An from a Criminal Lawyer site (Seth Okin) :
A Maryland gun collector can transport guns from their collection, private and public, for an exhibition. A handgun can be transported by a person to Maryland real estate that a person owns or leases or where the person resides or to a business establishment that a person owns or leased. Otherwise, a person who does not meet one of the above exceptions is prohibited from transporting, shipping, or moving a firearm in any way or else they risk arrest.

Part in red was on the old MDC form or info.

WRONG

Per MSP, the Designated Collector letter DOES NOT make one a bona fide gun collector under 4-203. Nor does it qualify as such under 4-203.

somd_mustangs · Jun 4, 2020

IIRC there isn't any definition of what "bone-fied" collector really means?
Logically one would think having an FFL-03 would do the trick but …

Blacksmith101 · Jun 5, 2020

Thanks. I knew I could count on you.
The reason for a MDA is that as I understand it, there is more flexibility in the transportation of a regulated firearm, i.e., before MDA it is to/from range or to/from shop/gunsmith as the only two reasons to have one in the vehicle. With a MDA, I could legally take one/bunch to a friends house for show-and-tell.

A "bona fide gun collector" and a "designated collector" are two different terms.

A "designated collector" has a letter from the MSP and can buy firearms but avoid the one regulated per month restriction.

A "bona fide gun collector" is a term used by the legislature that has not been defined yet, however someone will eventually use this as a defense in court and we will find out what it really means. We need someone with deep pockets and a lot of time to be the test case because it may need to go all the way to the Supreme Court.

In my opinion if you want to be a test case being a "designated collector" might help prove you are a "bona fide gun collector" but only having a designated collector letter won't instantly make you into a "bona fide gun collector" in the eyes of the law.

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