MSP Appeals to the Office of Administrative Hearings

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  • Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,990
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Well it's on the paperwork ;):D I don't remember the exact wordage but it says something as close to that as possible . I was surprised as well .That's right it said something about Corporation . We are INC.

    Not Sole or LLC

    Second Business is LLC which has not made it on permit



    I know it is but remember that the OAH was originally set up to hear cases concerning the MVA, Workman's Comp, etc... and not handgun permits. And there is no such thing as a Business Wear & Carry Permit in statute, it's spun from whole cloth by the MSP.

    No offense Sgt. Bonell, Sr. Trooper Lazuick, Sgt. Pickle and all the other designated MDS observers at the LD.
     

    welder516

    Deplorable Welder
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    27,307
    Underground Bunker
    I know it is but remember that the OAH was originally set up to hear cases concerning the MVA, Workman's Comp, etc... and not handgun permits. And there is no such thing as a Business Wear & Carry Permit in statute, it's spun from whole cloth by the MSP.

    No offense Sgt. Bonell, Sr. Trooper Lazuick, Sgt. Pickle and all the other designated MDS observers at the LD.

    I'm not worried about offending those Clowns at the LD , they are un-patriotic lap dogs of the state and hacks . And as far as I am concerned they have lied and have been caught in lies .
    One day they will be held accountable for such lies .

    But if there is generic paperwork then I can see how they are misleading the citizens of Maryland once again . :mad54:
     

    Schipperke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    18,540
    Can you post it? Might be another constitutional infringement.

    No it's not. A corporation is not a person, and Maryland law may in fact require an attorney. I'm not sure about a sole member LLC or sole proprietor though. I have filed and been heard going after deadbeats pro se.
     

    markgrutz

    Active Member
    Feb 1, 2011
    764
    Ellicott City, MD
    With all due respect to my colleague, I'm not sure that is the case.

    This requirement for the representation was not on the actual letter of appeal (on the white paper) but on the FAQ's on the green paper stapled to the white one. I have it on mine, and that is part of the reason I am not going to pursue it to OAH, no offence to Ed, but I can't afford the extra cost of this nonsense.

    Mark
     

    Not_an_outlaw

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 26, 2013
    4,679
    Prince Frederick, MD
    No it's not. A corporation is not a person, and Maryland law may in fact require an attorney. I'm not sure about a sole member LLC or sole proprietor though. I have filed and been heard going after deadbeats pro se.

    I believe a corporation is a person. I recall Citizens United is the caselaw but I could be wrong. Also, Mitt Romney said so on TV!
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,239
    Montgomery County
    In Maryland, a single-member LLC is considered a "pass through" entity on things like income and taxes, but still provides some arms-length liability protection. That's the theory, anyway. SMLLCs account for a huge number of small businesses in MD, and probably a good portion of the G&S-muster-passing folks with permits. It's NOT the company that's going before the OAH, it's the individual person who cites their business life and activity as their G&S. Hard to see how "businesses must bring an attorney" would even apply ... the business doesn't apply for, or receive the permit.
     

    welder516

    Deplorable Welder
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    27,307
    Underground Bunker
    Welder, did they stick to the subject of the restrictions or did they also dig into the workings of the business?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

    They stick to their same talk at HPRB that it is the way G & S work and they "May" put restrictions on .

    They could care less what you do business wise , times or circumstances . Please keep in mind they are Troopers doing the hearing (at least mine) not lawyers .
    If you have a more private question or concern shoot me an email .
     

    welder516

    Deplorable Welder
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    27,307
    Underground Bunker
    This requirement for the representation was not on the actual letter of appeal (on the white paper) but on the FAQ's on the green paper stapled to the white one. I have it on mine, and that is part of the reason I am not going to pursue it to OAH, no offence to Ed, but I can't afford the extra cost of this nonsense.

    Mark

    That is correct Mark :thumbsup:

    Also Our family pays separate quarterly corp. taxes and I draw a paycheck , in my business I am an employee and can not draw monies out without proper paperwork .
    My accountant is a stickler for details

    We also have a LLC property company that has not made it to the permit yet .
     

    PJDiesel

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 18, 2011
    17,603
    So,..... MSP Troopers are representing the State (not lawyers or an AAG), but the applicant is required to secure counsel?

    Sounds as simple as the idea that the HPRB wasn't a small enough hoop to jump through so they're adding more.

    As evidenced by people already saying thanks.... but no thanks. I'll be in the same boat, I'm not dicking around hiring a lawyer.
     

    welder516

    Deplorable Welder
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    27,307
    Underground Bunker
    So,..... MSP Troopers are representing the State (not lawyers or an AAG), but the applicant is required to secure counsel?

    Sounds as simple as the idea that the HPRB wasn't a small enough hoop to jump through so they're adding more.

    As evidenced by people already saying thanks.... but no thanks. I'll be in the same boat, I'm not dicking around hiring a lawyer.

    I am not being critical of you or anyone else that decides not to do it , but i do know that is what they are hoping for . They hope to price you out of the market .

    If we bombard the legal system with appeals and caseloads agaist this very fixable issue we will never make head-way . By salt and peppering with a few OAH cases it won't have a chance to move the needle .

    But as i said nobody can dictate what the comfort level is for another business-person .
     

    welder516

    Deplorable Welder
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    27,307
    Underground Bunker
    I have talked with a member here that i thought some sort of legal fund would be good to set up , but i don't know how the members here at MDS feel about yet more money leaving their wallets .
     

    PJDiesel

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 18, 2011
    17,603
    Much like the HPRB step though, the AVERAGE person isn't up to the task of screwing around for months on end for what can be done in 25 minutes for $20 bucks in PA by their residents.

    I don't know how we're not just shot directly in the face by stray bullets as we cross over the State line. It must be like a modern wild west up there.
     

    Schipperke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    18,540
    In Maryland, a single-member LLC is considered a "pass through" entity on things like income and taxes, but still provides some arms-length liability protection. That's the theory, anyway. SMLLCs account for a huge number of small businesses in MD, and probably a good portion of the G&S-muster-passing folks with permits. It's NOT the company that's going before the OAH, it's the individual person who cites their business life and activity as their G&S. Hard to see how "businesses must bring an attorney" would even apply ... the business doesn't apply for, or receive the permit.


    With all the people testifying they work 24/7 , using that excuse, it would probably be prudent to make the hearing a company issue. Show me a business owner that doesn't expense his permit fees. I'd bet many carry that out to training , gun and ammo too. Can't have it both ways.
     

    welder516

    Deplorable Welder
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    27,307
    Underground Bunker
    Yeah the restrictions seem so silly to me , wonder how many people have been shot by a permit holder that is carrying out of their restrictions :innocent0:rolleyes:


    Seems these assholes grab on to a agenda and run it into the ground . I honestly don't know how they keep it all together .

    Someone is or has spend large sums of money to train , have insurance , pay fee's , also pay lawyers if needed , attend hearings , go to court , been law abiding citizens , pay taxes . Are where the states eyes need to be fixed .

    We all are being treated as criminals .:mad54:
     

    welder516

    Deplorable Welder
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    27,307
    Underground Bunker
    With all the people testifying they work 24/7 , using that excuse, it would probably be prudent to make the hearing a company issue. Show me a business owner that doesn't expense his permit fees. I'd bet many carry that out to training , gun and ammo too. Can't have it both ways.

    You again are missing key facts , nobody is saying they are working 24/7 what is being said is we have a potential of working at any hour . The 24/7 argument is just a way to deliver a message .

    Nobody can work 24/7 Impossible , i think most folks understand the on-call issue and alarms and such .

    I claim any permit and associated cost to my business . :thumbsup:
     

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