Rep. Hudson to introduce Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

press1280 · Dec 24, 2016

Schipperke said:
I agree the language cited previously is for those that live in states not requiring a permit. This looks as if any Non-Res permit a Marylander can acquire would be good to go here. As Delaware is (was?) the place to incorporate, I bet there will be a couple defacto states people will get permits from.

I agree as well. The "OR" part makes it clear this is giving a nod to the Constitutional Carry states. Otherwise it is the same as previous bills. A MD resident will be able to carry in any other state than MD with any permit.

I believe this is an attempt to satisfy the GOA, who pushed a bill with similar provisions regarding the Constitutional Carry states.

While this would be great I'm somewhat skeptical that someone from a Constitutional Carry state goes into NJ (with no permit) and doesn't get the book thrown at them and the courts upholding it. The reason I say so is the NY/NJ Port Authority cases where the courts said police from one state weren't expected to know the laws of another state. At least with a permit the cop doesn't need to know whether the person's home state is Con Carry or not.
This also could be part of a bargaining chip. They need 8 Dems in the Senate to go along, so maybe they can tell their caucus they "watered" it down by requiring a physical permit and it won't be an election time weapon in 2018.

Indiana Jones · Dec 24, 2016

torched02 said:
Be careful what you wish for Gentleman, do you really want the Federal Government to be the issuing agency and therefore the "country's policeman" in keeping a registry of gun permit holders with
the ability to use that information for any purpose they, (another Obama Administration type or worse) deem necessary?? No thanks, this should be a State run proposal not a Federal.

Yea just keep waiting for MD to give you a permit. Just wait until they elect Shiela Dixon as governor.

press1280 · Dec 24, 2016

swinokur said:
Perhaps one of our legal eagles can weigh in here with an interpretation.

Why are bills written this way? Plain language not written by lawyers would be a welcome change.(sorry)

Because unless it's really really specific some lawyer/judge will find a way around it.

Schipperke · Dec 24, 2016

press1280 said:
Because unless it's really really specific some lawyer/judge will find a way around it.

Or shrewd entrepreneur

INMY01TA · Dec 24, 2016

press1280 said:
I agree as well. The "OR" part makes it clear this is giving a nod to the Constitutional Carry states. Otherwise it is the same as previous bills. A MD resident will be able to carry in any other state than MD with any permit.

I believe this is an attempt to satisfy the GOA, who pushed a bill with similar provisions regarding the Constitutional Carry states.

While this would be great I'm somewhat skeptical that someone from a Constitutional Carry state goes into NJ (with no permit) and doesn't get the book thrown at them and the courts upholding it. The reason I say so is the NY/NJ Port Authority cases where the courts said police from one state weren't expected to know the laws of another state. At least with a permit the cop doesn't need to know whether the person's home state is Con Carry or not.
This also could be part of a bargaining chip. They need 8 Dems in the Senate to go along, so maybe they can tell their caucus they "watered" it down by requiring a physical permit and it won't be an election time weapon in 2018.

Why can't a Md resident carry in Md with a NR permit? With this langauge if you have a permit granted by "a state" then you have reciprocity everywhere else.

swinokur · Dec 24, 2016

Ok_I see it now. It does indeed to be an addition to the law by using the word or a state in which he resides and is allowed to carry.

I agree it would appear to allow carry in any state on any permit other than your state of residence if not licensed there. That negates any 10A argument that could be made.

It also contains some legal protection from states like NY and NJ who thumb their nose at Federal statutes like FOPA. Hope they have deep pockets.

i am pretty dense sometimes

swinokur · Dec 24, 2016

My first trip will be into DC if this passes as written.

no more wallet full of a myriad of permits any longer.

Gryphon · Dec 24, 2016

swinokur said:
Perhaps one of our legal eagles can weigh in here with an interpretation.

Why are bills written this way? Plain language not written by lawyers would be a welcome change.(sorry)

This bill doesn't help Maryland residents without a permit. It merely prevents Maryland from sh*tting on the 2A rights of residents of from other states while in Maryland, subject to the enumerated exceptions in Section B. The stated purpose of the act is to benefit non-residents by extending reciprocating to them - not residents that have another states non-resident permit. So Section A, when read carefully, does not provide any greater right to Marylanders without a permit. Even so, I'd take it as it's another step in the right direction. For those that say the federal government should stay out on a 10A basis I call BS. A state's violation of your 2A right is not protected by the 10A. We just need the right appointment to say so.

swinokur · Dec 24, 2016

so Conselor, is it your considered opinion that a MD resident with a non resident permit from any other state may carry in any other state?

that's a start at any rate.

swinokur · Dec 24, 2016

And I wonder if DC will charge legal carriers with having an unregistered handgun in DC?

I wonder if DC will still require firearm registration when the Federal statute itself will allow carry in DC?

Man the DC docket will fill up fast if they try to. Maybe they'll get a Judicial slap down.

you know they'll never stop trying to infringe.

teratos · Dec 24, 2016

swinokur said:
they can't without stepping on the 10A. That's why it's wriiten the way it is.

Maybe this will be the case we have been waiting for. The 10th Amendment does not give States the right to negate any of the other Rights in the BoR.

swinokur · Dec 24, 2016

after rereading it, it would appear you'd be ok in any state OTHER than your own. That would seem ripe for a court challenge on more than one basis.

Defense Rifle · Dec 24, 2016

I think the bill by de facto may force states like Maryland to allow state residents to conceal carry even on non-residential permits (maybe not by text but by de facto).

14th amendment section 1 of COTUS.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Because if this National CC bill passes, Maryland is forced to allow out-of-state conceal carry permit holders to conceal carry within Maryland giving them the liberty to do so. Maryland denying it's own residents of that will be violating the 14th amendment because of "enforce any law" and "abridge" and thus denying its own residents the liberty to do so. A state must have equal protection of the laws and cannot deny liberty to a law-abiding person.

I hate to use this as an example, it would be like Maryland accepting/honoring out-of-state (same-sex couple) marriage certificates as valid but continue to deny (same-sex) marriage certificates to its own residents. This seems like a strong violation of the 14th amendment. A lot of this will also depend on the new USAG's interpretation, he may very well prosecute states like Maryland over "good and substantial".

CypherPunk · Dec 24, 2016

swinokur said:
exactly. this will put pressure on the GA and the Gov to do something when out of staters start legally carrying. We can then make a strong equal protection case. It may not be everything, but it's a start.

^^^This.
One step at a time. Don't over-reach.

Political pressure from Marylanders who can't carry in Baltimore, when people from Illinois can, will take care of the rest.

That and a equal protection suit, which is the next step.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

redeemed.man · Dec 24, 2016

Defense Rifle said:
I think the bill by de facto may force states like Maryland to allow state residents to conceal carry even on non-residential permits (maybe not by text but by de facto).

14th amendment section 1 of COTUS.

Because if this National CC bill passes, Maryland is forced to allow out-of-state conceal carry permit holders to conceal carry within Maryland giving them the liberty to do so. Maryland denying it's own residents of that will be violating the 14th amendment because of "enforce any law" and "abridge" and thus denying its own residents the liberty to do so. A state must have equal protection of the laws and cannot deny liberty to a law-abiding person.

I hate to use this as an example, it would be like Maryland accepting/honoring out-of-state (same-sex couple) marriage certificates as valid but continue to deny (same-sex) marriage certificates to its own residents. This seems like a strong violation of the 14th amendment. A lot of this will also depend on the new USAG's interpretation, he may very well prosecute states like Maryland over "good and substantial".

If that were true Maryland is already in violation because some can get a permit and some equally situated cannot.

teratos · Dec 24, 2016

boundlessdyad said:
If that were true Maryland is already in violation because some can get a permit and some equally situated cannot.

SCOTUS has yet to rule that carry outside the home falls under the 2A. Once they do, you will be absolutely correct. Of course, once they do MD will have to issue permits so the point will be moot.

swinokur · Dec 24, 2016

MD will not give up without a fight. nothing will be defacto. The bill specifically exempt your resident state from having to recognize any other permit for it's own residents

It's in their DNA

Defense Rifle · Dec 24, 2016

boundlessdyad said:
If that were true Maryland is already in violation because some can get a permit and some equally situated cannot.

Yes, you're right. Now we will have a USAG that will actually go on the offensive against states that continue to violate 2A and 14A rights. In the past, we didn't have anyone willing to prosecute states like Maryland.

Apparently, the new DOJ will have a second amendment civil rights division that will go after violators such as MD, CA, IL, NJ. If the new USAG Jeff Sessions officially stated that "good and substantial" violates second amendment rights because they deny the common citizen from conceal carry. We could see "good and substantial" become void, until the courts settle it or void altogether. That would be a good time to put in your application.

So I think by de facto, this bill is designed to make these states crumble under 14th amendment protection.

swinokur · Dec 24, 2016

Only issue is the 4CA said G&S is Constitutional. It will be interesting to see how MD is prosecuted constitutionally in light of that ruling.

Maybe with new facts (out of state carry now legal) we may make a new case. Or the USAG even better.

teratos · Dec 24, 2016

swinokur said:
Only issue is the 4CA said G&S is Constitutional. It will be interesting to see how MD is prosecuted constitutionally in light of that ruling.

Maybe with new facts (out of state carry now legal) we may make a new case. Or the USAG even better.

We need a SCOTUS ruling. Thank God Trump won.....

Rep. Hudson to introduce Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Ultimate Member

Wolverine

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

In a State of Bliss

In a State of Bliss

inveniam viam aut faciam

In a State of Bliss

In a State of Bliss

My hair is amazing

In a State of Bliss

Active Member

Opinions Are My Own

Ultimate Member

My hair is amazing

In a State of Bliss

Active Member

In a State of Bliss

My hair is amazing

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics