Keyholing LWRCI DI with <4K rounds
- Thread starter LongRanger300
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast
Member Benefits:
No ad networks! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
There is a lot of misinformation about steel cased bimetallic jacket ammo out there, but I don’t see much point in trying to correct it. The information is out there for people who want it.
My personal opinion is that a good quality semi auto rifle should be able to run cheap steel cased/bimetallic commie ammo reliably without keyholing or other issues. If the problem does not disappear once OP has finished cleaning his barrel, he should contact LWRC and see if they’ll take a look at his rifle.
My personal opinion is that a good quality semi auto rifle should be able to run cheap steel cased/bimetallic commie ammo reliably without keyholing or other issues. If the problem does not disappear once OP has finished cleaning his barrel, he should contact LWRC and see if they’ll take a look at his rifle.
Park ranger
Ultimate Member
- Dec 6, 2015
- 2,327
Check the crown. Cleaning can cause more harm than shooting.
- Jul 14, 2020
- 74
After another thorough cleaning with the copper remover the keyholing is resolved. Here are the things I did:
1) Copper cleaner x 2
2) Removed, cleaned, are reattached the VG6 Epsilon muzzle device
3) Replaced the gas rings on my bolt
Thanks for the advice, help, and support.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1) Copper cleaner x 2
2) Removed, cleaned, are reattached the VG6 Epsilon muzzle device
3) Replaced the gas rings on my bolt
Thanks for the advice, help, and support.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
kstone803
Official Meat Getter
Glad it worked out. Copper fouling can really put a damper on accuracy.
I run Tula through my DD barrels like they owe me money. You should definitely not see keyholing even after many, many thousands of rounds of that stuff, especially in an LWRC. Perhaps your group size will open up a little bit, but that's it.
I also do not recommend cleaning your barrels super frequently. After a long range session I run a single patch of CLP and then visually inspect the bore, then I run a patch around the chamber to minimize fouling build up. Until you see degrading accuracy, there's no reason IMO to detail clean your barrel. You may be doing more harm than good.
It might be helpful to get some slow motion shots of the action cycling. You'll be able to see any bolt bounce or premature unlocking perhaps.
As a final resort (would not do this until after working with LWRC warranty dep), you can try some fire-lapping ammo. I have never used it but the reviews online show people turning pretty bad barrels into tack drivers. Link below.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001928369
I also do not recommend cleaning your barrels super frequently. After a long range session I run a single patch of CLP and then visually inspect the bore, then I run a patch around the chamber to minimize fouling build up. Until you see degrading accuracy, there's no reason IMO to detail clean your barrel. You may be doing more harm than good.
It might be helpful to get some slow motion shots of the action cycling. You'll be able to see any bolt bounce or premature unlocking perhaps.
As a final resort (would not do this until after working with LWRC warranty dep), you can try some fire-lapping ammo. I have never used it but the reviews online show people turning pretty bad barrels into tack drivers. Link below.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001928369
Doco Overboard
Ultimate Member
If the bi metal ammo your shooting creates metallic fouling like some obsolete surplus I use it will load up the area of the grooves pretty quickly.
It makes a crummy fouling that's sticky to wipe out.
I run a patch through the bore with some grease on it to keep it from stiffening up right after shooting.
Then when I get back to the bench it wipes out pretty easy with a little solvent.
Glad you didn't have to get the manufacturer involved or swap the barrel out.
smokey
2A TEACHER
- Jan 31, 2008
- 31,497
Gunna say that's probably a muzzle brake issue, potentially cleaning, most likely NOT a twist/bullet weight issue. With 1/7, you'll be able to stabilize basically everything, including tracers. Cleaning could cause that at 50 yards, but your bore would have to be crazy fouled. Cleaning every 2-3 trips is actually probably too much if you're cleaning effectively. You could wear the barrel faster from overcleaning than from shooting. Try wipe-out bore foam, a one piece coated rod, brass patch jag, and bore guide. Foam up the bore, wait an hour or so, run some patches chamber to muzzle. It should be squeaky clean without continuously scrubbing your bore.
The muzzle device is the biggest likely source. Keyholing that close suggests it's having some kind of influence on the bullet as it leaves the muzzle.
The muzzle device is the biggest likely source. Keyholing that close suggests it's having some kind of influence on the bullet as it leaves the muzzle.
kstone803
Official Meat Getter
A bit more info on this topic, from a guy who's probably forgotten more about guns than I'll ever know.
https://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/the-gun-nuts/gun-cleaning-part-2-copper-fouling/
https://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/the-gun-nuts/gun-cleaning-part-2-copper-fouling/
clandestine
AR-15 Savant
If steel cased ammunition damages your AR than you have a crappy AR.
I'm not saying you did not have excessive fouling but it is very likely that your break was over torqued.
If you are cleaning after every time you shoot the gun I would also consider avoiding that. Use a schedule instead of cleaning after each range session. I have observed lots of cleaning induce damage by people who can't leave the gun alone.
I also see lots of problems out of that brand of muzzle devices, and improper installation of muzzle devices.
Non concentric threads (thread/bore run out) could be a problem too.
If there is a crush washer on the brake I would pull that off and try to re-time it with shims and low torque value.
I'm not saying you did not have excessive fouling but it is very likely that your break was over torqued.
If you are cleaning after every time you shoot the gun I would also consider avoiding that. Use a schedule instead of cleaning after each range session. I have observed lots of cleaning induce damage by people who can't leave the gun alone.
I also see lots of problems out of that brand of muzzle devices, and improper installation of muzzle devices.
Non concentric threads (thread/bore run out) could be a problem too.
If there is a crush washer on the brake I would pull that off and try to re-time it with shims and low torque value.
Magnumite
Ultimate Member
what is the suggest max torque for a muzzle device? I thought is is 20’ft-lbs.
clandestine
AR-15 Savant
Depends on who you ask and what directions you follow. Many companies stupid proof instructions to prevent things from falling off, but create problems by advising too much torque.
"too much" can vary from barrel to barrel.
Magnumite
Ultimate Member
got it
Bootknife
Ultimate Member
I put a lot of Faith in Clandestine's experienced knowledge.That being said I use Mike Lukas Bore Guides when I do clean as they are a Breach to Muzzle system.This was as always an info filled Post. Thanks!
Jerry M
Ultimate Member
Another report
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
they got keyholing at 6,000. But definitely extra wear.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
they got keyholing at 6,000. But definitely extra wear.
I’ve become lazy AF. That more than I do.
Hunting guns get cleaned at the end of the season. Or sometime in the spring. So one annual cleaning. Usually just a quick pull through with a brass brush (I avoid rifle rods whenever possible). Then a couple cloth patches with some CLP on them.
Non-hunting guns are just, sometimes. ARs the same. Dunno, usually about every 300-600 rounds I’ll do the same. Run a brush once and then a couple patches. Maybe about every 1k or so I’ll run a chamber brush a little and wipe out the action and wipe down the bolt with a bit of new lube/grease.
Handguns are actually maybe a bit more frequently. But I usually use a poly brush on them. Couple passes with some CLP or hoppes and a cloth patch or two. Maybe every 2-4 range trips. Whatever that might end up for round count (100-300 rounds). About half as often clean out the slide and internals a bit.
I used to be meticulous. Clean every gun after a range trip. Spotless. There is no need. I hardly clean my AR’s ever.
04RWon
Ultimate Member
This. My competition guns get cleaned once every few months and probably a whore bath at most.
If its a hd or carry gun or going away for a while itll get cleaned well.
rockstarr
Major Deplorable
Same here. Now I usually do it when I’m bored or out in the garage drinking a beer with the old man. It’s a good stress reliever
