Mass killings and mental health

GlocksAndPatriots · May 11, 2017

Not vaguely "mental illness," but schizophrenics and bipolar people have no business being free, much less owning guns.

alucard0822 · May 11, 2017

GlocksAndPatriots said:
Not vaguely "mental illness," but schizophrenics and bipolar people have no business being free, much less owning guns.

Any firsthand experience with a person suffering from either disorder? Guessing probably not, especial bipolar, but good illustration of the public's perception, and why people won't seek treatment.

So guess this guy had no buisness outside of a padded room, after being diagnosed and treated for bipolar disorder for most of his adult life.

teratos · May 11, 2017

GlocksAndPatriots said:
Not vaguely "mental illness," but schizophrenics and bipolar people have no business being free, much less owning guns.

Pure ignorance of the conditions.

GlocksAndPatriots · May 11, 2017

alucard0822 said:
Any firsthand experience with a person suffering from either disorder? Guessing probably not, especial bipolar, but good illustration of the public's perception, and why people won't seek treatment.

So guess this guy had no buisness outside of a padded room, after being diagnosed and treated for bipolar disorder for most of his adult life.

View attachment 204929

Yes. They've all been train wrecks. SOME of them can sort of manage on medication, but even then, you don't know when they're going to either blow up or go into a suicidal depressed mood.

alucard0822 · May 11, 2017

There have been several recent studies done on the link between mental illness and crime. Most estimate that about 20% of the population suffers from some form of mental illness, around 5% are considered severe diagnosis(schizophrenia, bipolar, borderline personality etc.). Most find that a statistically proportional amount of crime is committed by the mentally ill, around the same 20% and 5%, not disproportionate numbers some might expect. Thing is the mentally ill are several times more likely to be the VICTIMS of violent crime, they find a high percentage of victims either suffering from a pre-existing disorder, or a person suffers a disorder after the trauma of a violent crime. The studies would lead you to believe that preserving the 2nd amendment rights of those with mental illness is critically important, and should not be removed unless as a last resort, should not be a lifetime ban for often temporary conditions and only after judicial Due process.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/kenneth-cole-billboard-gets-slammed-over-gun-message-n422396
https://www.mentalhealth.gov/basics/myths-facts/
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/208861
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/04/mental-illness-crime.aspx
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Virginia_Hiday/publication/13397696_Criminal_Victimization_of_Persons_With_Severe_Mental_Illness/links/56be4ba408aeedba056118f9.pdf
http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/fixing-the-system/features-and-news/2030-new-study-mentally-ill-are-often-targets-of-violence
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150723-the-myth-of-mental-illness-and-violence

smokey · May 11, 2017

GlocksAndPatriots said:
Not vaguely "mental illness," but schizophrenics and bipolar people have no business being free, much less owning guns.

Wow.

zoostation · May 11, 2017

GlocksAndPatriots said:
Not vaguely "mental illness," but schizophrenics and bipolar people have no business being free, much less owning guns.

My wife has worked in MH for 30+ years. Plenty of people with manic depression function just fine. Schizophrenia is usually a lot harder to treat from what I know but like anything there are varying degrees of it. To say that all people with either condition should be institutionalized is just plain wrong.

GlocksAndPatriots · May 11, 2017

zoostation said:
My wife has worked in MH for 30+ years. Plenty of people with manic depression function just fine. Schizophrenia is usually a lot harder to treat from what I know but like anything there are varying degrees of it. To say that all people with either condition should be institutionalized is just plain wrong.

I live in New York. I'm tired of hearing crazy people screaming at the air down the road. We'd be better off putting them in state mental hospitals.

smokey · May 11, 2017

GlocksAndPatriots said:
I live in New York. I'm tired of hearing crazy people screaming at the air down the road. We'd be better off putting them in state mental hospitals.

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Peltor-Optime-98-Earmuff/dp/B0017YLTAI

teawhy · May 11, 2017

alucard0822 said:
There have been several recent studies done on the link between mental illness and crime. Most estimate that about 20% of the population suffers from some form of mental illness, around 5% are considered severe diagnosis(schizophrenia, bipolar, borderline personality etc.). Most find that a statistically proportional amount of crime is committed by the mentally ill, around the same 20% and 5%, not disproportionate numbers some might expect. Thing is the mentally ill are several times more likely to be the VICTIMS of violent crime, they find a high percentage of victims either suffering from a pre-existing disorder, or a person suffers a disorder after the trauma of a violent crime. The studies would lead you to believe that preserving the 2nd amendment rights of those with mental illness is critically important, and should not be removed unless as a last resort, should not be a lifetime ban for often temporary conditions and only after judicial Due process.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/kenneth-cole-billboard-gets-slammed-over-gun-message-n422396
https://www.mentalhealth.gov/basics/myths-facts/
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/208861
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/04/mental-illness-crime.aspx
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Virginia_Hiday/publication/13397696_Criminal_Victimization_of_Persons_With_Severe_Mental_Illness/links/56be4ba408aeedba056118f9.pdf
http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/fixing-the-system/features-and-news/2030-new-study-mentally-ill-are-often-targets-of-violence
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150723-the-myth-of-mental-illness-and-violence

Good finds :thumbsup:

smokey0118 said:
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Peltor-Optime-98-Earmuff/dp/B0017YLTAI

zoostation · May 12, 2017

GlocksAndPatriots said:
I live in New York. I'm tired of hearing crazy people screaming at the air down the road. We'd be better off putting them in state mental hospitals.

Such a deep understanding of what you are discussing as well as an understanding of liberty and human rights all in one brief sentence. Saying everyone with manic depression should be locked away is honestly such a ridiculous statement I'm not sure it's worth a response. In any case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_with_bipolar_disorder

zoostation · May 12, 2017

smokey0118 said:
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Peltor-Optime-98-Earmuff/dp/B0017YLTAI

Rab1515 · May 12, 2017

zoostation said:
Such a deep understanding of what you are discussing as well as an understanding of liberty and human rights all in one brief sentence. Saying everyone with manic depression should be locked away is honestly such a ridiculous statement I'm not sure it's worth a response. In any case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_with_bipolar_disorder

+1

alucard0822 · May 12, 2017

GlocksAndPatriots said:
I live in New York. I'm tired of hearing crazy people screaming at the air down the road. We'd be better off putting them in state mental hospitals.

how long have you been hearing these voices? Do others hear them? Are these voices talking about you? Do they give you orders?

might not be a troll, could be one of "them" :rolleyes:

Rab1515 · May 12, 2017

GlocksAndPatriots said:
I live in New York. I'm tired of hearing crazy people screaming at the air down the road. We'd be better off putting them in state mental hospitals.

With or without a trial?

GlocksAndPatriots · May 12, 2017

smokey0118 said:
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Peltor-Optime-98-Earmuff/dp/B0017YLTAI

And I'm tired of incidents like this:

http://abc7ny.com/news/woman-arrested-in-fatal-push-onto-subway-tracks-in-times-square/1594303/

Why are you defending these people? At best, they're annoying and disruptive, at worst, they're violent and dangerous.

GlocksAndPatriots · May 12, 2017

Rab1515 said:
With or without a trial?

Of course with a hearing. Due process is important. But waiting until it's too late (which is the policy now) is not good.

zoostation · May 12, 2017

GlocksAndPatriots said:
And I'm tired of incidents like this:

http://abc7ny.com/news/woman-arrested-in-fatal-push-onto-subway-tracks-in-times-square/1594303/

Why are you defending these people? At best, they're annoying and disruptive, at worst, they're violent and dangerous.

What people would "these people" happen to be?

GlocksAndPatriots · May 12, 2017

zoostation said:
What people would "these people" happen to be?

The severely mentally ill. Prior to the deinstitutionalization of the 60s and 70s, these people were involuntarily committed. And we were better off for it.

Rab1515 · May 12, 2017

GlocksAndPatriots said:
Of course with a hearing. Due process is important. But waiting until it's too late (which is the policy now) is not good.

The legal test for being committed is dangerous to self and others. Are you suggesting we hold people who are diagnosed untill they can prove they are not a danger?

Mass killings and mental health

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