Working on Pistol Load Accuracy

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  • John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,731
    Socialist State of Maryland
    ^^^^ This x 100,000!!!!!!

    I've used a 200 gr LSWC #68 H&G clone bullet from "All American Ammo" and then re-named "NSK Bullets" for a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time.
    (Best hardcast boolits I've ever used in my Gold Cup.)

    Neal put his initials on someone else's bullets? Did you shoot bullseye with him and JFred too?
     

    byf43

    SCSC Life/NRA Patron Life
    Neal put his initials on someone else's bullets? Did you shoot bullseye with him and JFred too?

    From what I recall, Neal and someone else started the business as "All American Ammo" or "All American Bullets". I think they were in Northern Virginia, at the time. (One of the guys at the sportsman's club would make the trip to/from to pick up boolits.)

    I'd have to go down to the reloading room and pull a box out of the back of the cabinet to get the correct name.

    No, I didn't shoot with Neal, but, I've bought thousands and thousands of his boolits.

    He's also the guy that I got a LOT of once-fired .45-70 brass from, at the Cresap Armory gunshow, about 20 years ago.

    Haven't seen him in years. Don't even know if he's alive, or still making/selling boolits.
     

    byf43

    SCSC Life/NRA Patron Life
    Neil is one of the unsung heroes of the Vietnam War. I lost touch with him and Vickie, his wife, when I stopped selling at gunshows.


    I did a search on NSK Bullets a few minutes ago, and the website is still active, with some contact information, but I didn't see anything about bullets and availability. (Might have been there. I do need new glasses!) :innocent0

    The times I talked with him at the gunshows, he never mentioned his service.

    I haven't bought anything from him in years. He commented that he'd never cast boolits for .45-70, because he can cast two .45 cal SWC instead.
     

    PowPow

    Where's the beef?
    Nov 22, 2012
    4,712
    Howard County
    Since you're talking H&G, I started a new container of Bullseye and took my H&G 130 (185gr SWC) loads out today with the chrono. 3.8gr Bullseye, 1.168" COL; one batch with WLP and another batch with Fed 150M. I shot some other ammo before I ran these. Then I did two 10 shot series of each alternating between brands. The numbers for each series per brand were comparable.

    WLP, 20 shots: 740 avg, min 721, max 765, ES 43, SD 17.4
    Fed 150M, 20 shots: 705 avg, min 689, max 718, ES 29, SD 8.9

    The WLP being a hotter primer, the extra powder burn is reflected in the results. Not enough of a difference to really perceive. I'd be happy to shoot with either, but I'll keep loading with the Fed 150's.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Back in the 90s, I was buying the H&G 68 clone bullets from a guy from the Eastern Shore. He would show up to local USPSA matches with a pickup truck full of bullets.

    I have to check, I still have a number of boxes of them.

    A very good price when you bought in quantity.

    As I said, I found I needed 5.8 grains 231 to make sure I would not go minor, even on a single round
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,731
    Socialist State of Maryland
    Back in the 90s, I was buying the H&G 68 clone bullets from a guy from the Eastern Shore. He would show up to local USPSA matches with a pickup truck full of bullets.

    I have to check, I still have a number of boxes of them.

    A very good price when you bought in quantity.

    As I said, I found I needed 5.8 grains 231 to make sure I would not go minor, even on a single round

    He's probably retired or planted by now. :rolleyes:
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    Took new acquisition to range today with lube cast round flat nose John sent me
    Loaded with w231 and another with bullseye

    The w231 did good. I think I’ll work up a load for it cause that is what I have the most of.

    W231 10 rounds

    eb37d47a8423fb3863726c7dcc08fa95.jpg

    6cf8db95a015fdaaea9c1095aaaec53d.jpg

    Here is the copper washed Bullets I had been using. 10 rounds
    46c9849c85aa90ed6704acfd3fa55c2c.jpg



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    Are you bench resting or shooting off hand? Nice Kimber BTW. :thumbsup:

    Ha, I wish that was offhand for me
    That was from my rifle/pistol stand. Most of the group in the black was from the last 5 when I got better at holding it still and aligning the sights.

    I'm very pleased on that Kimber. It ran all the reloads flawlessly although I only shot 40 rounds today. Its used but in excellent condition and the trigger was worked on which is why I got it. Not sure about that compensator look. I may try it w/ the stock bushing.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,731
    Socialist State of Maryland
    Ha, I wish that was offhand for me
    That was from my rifle/pistol stand. Most of the group in the black was from the last 5 when I got better at holding it still and aligning the sights.

    I'm very pleased on that Kimber. It ran all the reloads flawlessly although I only shot 40 rounds today. Its used but in excellent condition and the trigger was worked on which is why I got it. Not sure about that compensator look. I may try it w/ the stock bushing.

    The stock bushing may tighten up the groups also.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    I shot the Lee RNFP powder coated today
    I just like the clean look of it. StdDev was slightly better than lubed and all but one flyer was just as good. I do need to inspect my Bullets moving forward.

    I just got in an older Lee H&G68 style mold today and molded some up to coat and try soon

    I guess I’ll target around 900fps?

    The Lee 200gr RNFP powder coated are running 960fps with 5.6gr W231


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,731
    Socialist State of Maryland
    My experience with HG68 bullets is 3.8 to 4.2 using Bullseye, Red Dot, WST or Titegroup. You will probably need a reduced power spring with those loads. If you use iron sights, a 15 or 16 # spring should work. If you use and optic, you may have to go 12 to 14 #.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    So, I shot today both the Lee SWC and a Lyman SWC molded bullets today.
    I also pulled that compensator off the Kimber and put in a factory bushing. I ran both with comp and with factory and the difference with my PC LRNFP bullets was about 1/2- 1" smaller groups with the Factory bushing.

    Following posts from JohnofMD and Rockzilla I think I'm in a much better spot today!
    The drawing/dims Rockzilla posted REALLY helped and was Spot on for reliability. I ran dummy rounds I loaded and all the rounds I

    Having more W231 than Bullseye, i loaded up more W231 than Bullseye. Just a small sample
    I lubed some and Powder coated some and really they performed pretty darn close to each other so I won't include parsing that out.
    Lee SWC 5.0 W231 880fps 3.5" groups (9 rounds)
    Lee SWC 5.2 W231 915fps 3.75" groups (9 rounds)
    Lee SWC 4.0 Bullseye 775fps 1.75" groups (9 rounds) (both PC and Xlox)

    the groups being that tight are basically the limit IMO of the method of load testing. I don't think with the rest and my eyes that I could hold groups tighter than that even if the gun was dead on each time.

    I have enough Bullseye to load up about 1000 rounds at that small load but would like to see what happens when I reduce the W231 to a lower velocity.
    Hodgdon website shows the starting load at 4.4gr @ 771 fps so I may try 4.4 & 4.6 out of curiosity.

    If I can load the bullseye and Lee SWC Powder coated consistently, I'm pretty much already where I want to be!
    c55abf95f4b8133a466431ef5c8f488f.jpg

    474c2d9d2ffa9e2e12b3d46d7801ccf8.jpg
     
    Last edited:

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,731
    Socialist State of Maryland
    Good work! Out of all the powders I used in .45 ACP, WW 231 took the longest to work up a good load. I wouldn't go lower as it gets inconsistent. I would try working between 5.3 and 5.5. Try varying the COAL. You can actually not have any lead sticking out of the case if you case trim to specs.
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,561
    Harford County, Maryland
    Bullseye is a dandy powder. Cudos on finding your Bullseye load. That was one of the first lessons I learned in reloading....powder WILL. make a difference.

    You have some knowledgeable members kicking information at you. You’ll do well.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    So, I'm curious about how its suggested to run higher with W231 and a lower velocity is working well with Bullseye. I"m willing to go back up to try heavier loads but I"m just curious about it.
    When I ran 5.6 W231 with the Copper washed bullets I noticed muzzle blast from the compensator. I was curious cause I would think powder burning past the muzzle would create variability, No?

    I have enough Powder coated SWC to try some various loads of W231 as well as load up a box or two with the 4.0 Bullseye.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,731
    Socialist State of Maryland
    So, I'm curious about how its suggested to run higher with W231 and a lower velocity is working well with Bullseye. I"m willing to go back up to try heavier loads but I"m just curious about it.
    When I ran 5.6 W231 with the Copper washed bullets I noticed muzzle blast from the compensator. I was curious cause I would think powder burning past the muzzle would create variability, No?

    I have enough Powder coated SWC to try some various loads of W231 as well as load up a box or two with the 4.0 Bullseye.

    Bullseye has more nitro and a faster flame propagation than WW231. WW ball powder also have a coating of some sort that slows them down some.

    Muzzle blast just shows some unknown amount of powder has burned outside the barrel. I have seen Powerpistol loads that have SD's of 5 and a football sized flame.

    I would save the copper washed rounds for steel. For home reloaders, traditionally lubed and sized lead bullets usually give the best accuracy with powder coat a close second if you don't over do it.

    With the powder and primer shortages being what they are today, I recommend that, if you have a good load, to hold off testing other powders until they become available again.
     

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