Wear in pin and safety selector holes in 7075 80% lower?

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  • NateIU10

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 6, 2009
    4,587
    Southport, CT
    ATF tells them it's needed to log them under their FFL. There has been sevel incidents with anodizers and ATF regarding this issue that have been discussed on various forms and Facebook groups.

    Perhaps it can be fought but the anodizers have made it clear that if there is no markings they send it back and no work is done.

    ATF as in local IOIs or someone that has a "real" opinion? I have always been told that home-built firearms are to be acquired the same way as pre-68 guns: Acquire the firearm from the person from whom received with a serial number of "NSN" or similar, listing the Manufacturer, Model, and caliber as listed on the firearm or None/Null as appropriate.

    I'll ask the DIO out of Boston next time I speak with him, this is interesting.

    Anodizers are told incorrect information from IOIs all the time (like FCGs milled to M16 spec without a sear pin hole). Even the most well-meaning IOIs get things wrong sometimes. If an anodizer receives a firearm, serialized or not, and fails to log the acquisition and disposition to return it because it doesn't meet their rules, that is certainly illegal...
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    ATF as in local IOIs or someone that has a "real" opinion? I have always been told that home-built firearms are to be acquired the same way as pre-68 guns: Acquire the firearm from the person from whom received with a serial number of "NSN" or similar, listing the Manufacturer, Model, and caliber as listed on the firearm or None/Null as appropriate.

    I'll ask the DIO out of Boston next time I speak with him, this is interesting.

    Anodizers are told incorrect information from IOIs all the time (like FCGs milled to M16 spec without a sear pin hole). Even the most well-meaning IOIs get things wrong sometimes. If an anodizer receives a firearm, serialized or not, and fails to log the acquisition and disposition to return it because it doesn't meet their rules, that is certainly illegal...

    Please understand that I am not saying marking a home built lower is Mandatory.

    What I a'm saying that anodizers won't take the a home made receiver if they are not marked.

    The anodizers have this rule because they have been threatened by Civilian ATF Auditors or ATF Agents when inspections are occurring.

    I'm just repeating what the companies who do this work say they will and won't do.
     

    dist1646

    Ultimate Member
    May 1, 2012
    8,758
    Eldersburg
    Would using something like Loctite 242 (Blue) which is supposed to allow Loctited parts to be removed with hand tools be an alternative to anti-rotation pins for the hammer/trigger pin?

    Will not work and is totally unnecessary. I agree with Clandestine on this one.
     

    JohnnyE

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 18, 2013
    9,466
    MoCo
    Please understand that I am not saying marking a home built lower is Mandatory.

    What I a'm saying that anodizers won't take the a home made receiver if they are not marked.

    The anodizers have this rule because they have been threatened by Civilian ATF Auditors or ATF Agents when inspections are occurring.

    I'm just repeating what the companies who do this work say they will and won't do.

    Do you have an opinion on DIY anodizing? The process and materials I've seen described for doing it at home appears doable for those of reasonable skill.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    Do you have an opinion on DIY anodizing? The process and materials I've seen described for doing it at home appears doable for those of reasonable skill.

    I have never done the DIY anodizing. I have seen the end results and they can be quite nice. From my understanding (I may be wrong), is that home anodizing is a lower cass and does not make the surface harder like they Type 3/Class 2 anodizing does.
     

    jjones88

    Active Member
    Apr 4, 2013
    568
    Sykesville
    Do you have an opinion on DIY anodizing? The process and materials I've seen described for doing it at home appears doable for those of reasonable skill.

    I regularly DIY anodize. It's a pretty simple process assuming you are careful and follow the steps and don't cheap on equipment. Use a real DC power supply and not a car battery charger.

    No idea how it compares to proper anodizing, but I've never had any issues with pin holes on any of my toys.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    I have never done the DIY anodizing. I have seen the end results and they can be quite nice. From my understanding (I may be wrong), is that home anodizing is a lower cass and does not make the surface harder like they Type 3/Class 2 anodizing does.

    Yes type III is very hard to do at home since you need to keep the acid solution cool.

    In the United States, a mixed acid solution of sulfuric and oxalic acid with water is used to hard anodize aluminum. It's performed at low temperature, between 30 degrees and 50 degrees F, using 24 to 36 amps of current for each square foot of surface treated at a much higher voltage, between 75 and 100 volts.
     

    JohnnyE

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 18, 2013
    9,466
    MoCo
    I have never done the DIY anodizing. I have seen the end results and they can be quite nice. From my understanding (I may be wrong), is that home anodizing is a lower cass and does not make the surface harder like they Type 3/Class 2 anodizing does.

    I regularly DIY anodize. It's a pretty simple process assuming you are careful and follow the steps and don't cheap on equipment. Use a real DC power supply and not a car battery charger.

    No idea how it compares to proper anodizing, but I've never had any issues with pin holes on any of my toys.

    Yes type III is very hard to do at home since you need to keep the acid solution cool.
    Thanks for weighing in. I am just getting started trying to learn about this, but clearly, with the effort that goes in to making something like a lower or anything else that would be of interest on this board, I refuse to half-ass it! To my reckoning, anodizing is not solely for cosmetic purposes. It should protect against corrosion and wear as well, meaning hard anodizing (Type 3/Class 2 anodizing), not some half-solution. At least we're talking about relatively small items, so creating an ice-bath or whatever sort of temp control solution that works doesn't have to work with a 50 gallon tank.

    Maybe one day I'll do it myself.
     

    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,536
    Columbia
    Sounds ominous; please elaborate.



    First off it won’t do any good. Second, little bits of Loctite can get into places where it’s not supposed to be and cause other issues.
    See Clandestine’s post about trigger pins to get a thorough knowledge base on it. He’s been a gunsmith for years and specializes in the AR15. If you get the chance take one of his AR15 armorers courses, it’s worth every penny and then some.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    My Toy

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 31, 2008
    1,194
    Westminster
    So for the thousands of unmarked pre-anodized 80% lowers out there that have been completed and probably can't be sent out to be re-anodized what would the best course of action to increase the longevity of bare aluminum trigger and hammer pin holes?
     

    jjones88

    Active Member
    Apr 4, 2013
    568
    Sykesville
    So for the thousands of unmarked pre-anodized 80% lowers out there that have been completed and probably can't be sent out to be re-anodized what would the best course of action to increase the longevity of bare aluminum trigger and hammer pin holes?

    Most likely not worry about it. If your pin holes are properly drilled then the pins will move very little causing them to egg out. Also, if you aren't mucking around with the trigger group, you aren't inserting punches and hitting with a hammer. Most people will never even come close to the round count needed for the issue to occur.

    If you are really concerned, drill undersized and ream to proper size so that you get a perfect hole. Then put your trigger group in and leave it in.

    My anodizing method is type 2, keeping the solution between 65-75 deg F. In this weather it's kind of difficult to keep the temperature correct. Type 3 would be pretty hard, you would need to really manage your bath closely and play with amps.

    From last weekend (and my solution is getting old and little dirty):
     

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    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    So for the thousands of unmarked pre-anodized 80% lowers out there that have been completed and probably can't be sent out to be re-anodized what would the best course of action to increase the longevity of bare aluminum trigger and hammer pin holes?

    I would say Birchwood Casey Aluminum Black and make sure you grease the ends of the pins and the holes.
     

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