Bluing Question

River02 · Jul 28, 2018

I have a Browning Citori from the early 90's. There is a small patch on the lower barrel, near the business end of the barrel-- about half the size of a pinkie finger nail, that is missing the bluing. Is this something an inexperienced guy can easily fix on his own or... better to get it done by someone with experience.

iH8DemLibz · Jul 28, 2018

Slap some cold blue on it.

ted76 · Jul 28, 2018

Degrease it first and then apply Birchwood Casey cold bluing to it. Apply, then wipe it off quickly, do this multiple times, until the color matches,

River02 · Jul 28, 2018

Gentlemen-- Thank you for the quick, helpful responses.

Pinecone · Jul 29, 2018

I prefer Rust Blue for a deeper blue.

http://www.pjsproducts.com/radocy.htm

Biggfoot44 · Jul 29, 2018

Decrease carefully, then use either T-4 or Oxpho Blue from Brownells .

Oxpho Blue is slightly harder, but T-4 is easier to get good color matching . I prefer T-4 , but either is far better than the usual mass market cold blues .

Boondock Saint · Jul 29, 2018

Does cold bluing provide rust protection for the metal, or is it strictly cosmetic in nature?

Also, how does it perform with pitted metal that may or may not have rust in the pitting?

I'm working with a recently acquired 20 GA learning piece that had a nasty rust streak on the left rear of the receiver. I'm at the point where I'm removing finish as much as progressing into the pitting and prefer not to dig further. I'm largely happy leaving it as is, but if a few bucks will provide further protection and improve its appearance, I'll give it a shot.

So what says the brain trust?

lazarus · Jul 31, 2018

Yes, bluing is an oxidation of the metal in to magnetite, Fe3O4. There is minimal volumetric change and it is a stable process that doesn’t continue. Rusting is an oxidation in to feric oxide, Fe2O3 and it results in a large volume change that means it flakes and will continue to oxidize.

Cold bluing tends to not be as even or as thick as hot bluing. Which is why it is considered not a durable or as rust resistant. Neither is obviously as good as some modern treatments, like nitride coatings. They both form the same type of coating, but as noted, hot bluing tends to be more wear resistant and better protective. Cold bluing uses selenium dioxide and copper sulfate mixture and might treat the surface few ten thousandths or an inch. Hot bluing can be rust bluing which uses an acid solution to form red rust uniformly and then treated in boiling water to confer the red rust to black oxide. Or you can do the rusting through fuming and then boiling water immersion. The last type uses a solution of potassium nitrate and sodium hydroxide in water and heated to about 275-310F.

Anyway, those all tend to be more even than cold bluing and might blue to a depth of a few thousandths of an inch.

My 2 cents is the brichwood Casey perma blue paste. I find it leaves a more even and deeper coat than their regular liquid bluing. I redid an entire barrel with the liquid and I like the swirling and unevenness of the coating, but I’ve touched up some stuff with the paste and it leaves a very even and deep bluing IMHO.

toppkatt · Jul 31, 2018

I like either Van's or OxPho Blue or combined.

River02 · Jul 31, 2018

Well...I'm going to try OxPho Blue and I'll report back on my experience-- Arrives tomorrow...or so said the Brownells notifier. Thanks for all the input.

Boondock Saint · Jul 31, 2018

lazarus said:
Yes, bluing is an oxidation of the metal in to magnetite, Fe3O4. There is minimal volumetric change and it is a stable process that doesn’t continue. Rusting is an oxidation in to feric oxide, Fe2O3 and it results in a large volume change that means it flakes and will continue to oxidize.

Cold bluing tends to not be as even or as thick as hot bluing. Which is why it is considered not a durable or as rust resistant. Neither is obviously as good as some modern treatments, like nitride coatings. They both form the same type of coating, but as noted, hot bluing tends to be more wear resistant and better protective. Cold bluing uses selenium dioxide and copper sulfate mixture and might treat the surface few ten thousandths or an inch. Hot bluing can be rust bluing which uses an acid solution to form red rust uniformly and then treated in boiling water to confer the red rust to black oxide. Or you can do the rusting through fuming and then boiling water immersion. The last type uses a solution of potassium nitrate and sodium hydroxide in water and heated to about 275-310F.

Anyway, those all tend to be more even than cold bluing and might blue to a depth of a few thousandths of an inch.

My 2 cents is the brichwood Casey perma blue paste. I find it leaves a more even and deeper coat than their regular liquid bluing. I redid an entire barrel with the liquid and I like the swirling and unevenness of the coating, but I’ve touched up some stuff with the paste and it leaves a very even and deep bluing IMHO.

What an excellent and informative post. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. This is part of what makes MDS great. :thumbsup:

I was leaning toward the paste given the location of the damage in question. This will be used on a training/field gun that I don't mind beating up to an extent. I just managed to remove a good bit of the finish in also removing rust for a neglected and underused firearm. Now that it is in presumably more caring hands, I can at least make the rash less obvious until the nephews and future rookie shooters leave their marks on the firearm.

Thanks again.

River02 · Aug 25, 2018

So I finally got around to using the OxphoBlue on the Citori. Watched several videos before attempting the re-blue myself and adhered to all the instructions on the bottle (and some in the videos as far as using the right abrasive level of steel wool and application process etc.). Still not where I'd like to be with the overall aesthetics of the repair...but hoping I've protected/prevented or at least abated the future chances for rust damage to that area of the barrel. Thanks for the suggestions and helpful input.

Biggfoot44 · Aug 25, 2018

Congratulations River02, for meeting at least interim level of satisfaction . To further tweek , put some (still) additional coats for darker .

************

Not picking on River02 , he went with the majority MDS recomendations, and that's usually a best bet .

But this does illustrate the difference between Oxpho Blue and T-4 . In my side by side tests on multiple guns, T-4 gives better and easier color matching to existing finishes .

River02 · Aug 25, 2018

No worries Biggfoot44-- I appreciate all the input. But there is more "pitting" damage to the barrel than I had remembered--not severe but just enough to continue to mar the appearance of the barrel. I didn't feel comfortable with trying to be very aggressive in getting down to a real smooth surface and that's where the majority of my dissatisfaction lies. I will likely put several more coats of the Oxpho on per your suggestion though--I mean it can't hurt right-

Biggfoot44 · Aug 25, 2018

Ah , gotcha , Pitting .

Since it's more than you wish to tackle with sandpaper ( and caution is a good thing ) , you have two options :

1. Tell yourself it is a sign of Character , and declare Victory !

2. Send to professional .

I'm heavily inclined to #1 , and is my general recommendation .

River02 · Aug 25, 2018

Biggfoot44 said:
Ah , gotcha , Pitting .

Since it's more than you wish to tackle with sandpaper ( and caution is a good thing ) , you have two options :

1. Tell yourself it is a sign of Character , and declare Victory !

2. Send to professional .

I'm heavily inclined to #1 , and is my general recommendation .

Yep! I'm with you on #1... and will gladly declare victory at this point. :party29:

Bluing Question

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