9mm 16" AR upper on newer receiver

MG-70 · Dec 6, 2017

I need to know if I can legally use a 16" 9mm upper on a newer standard receiver, bought as a receiver (not rifle or handgun), and with a Hahn mag adapter? Other than the 16" 9mm upper, I would only use heavy barrel uppers, such as an nice old Bushmaster 20". I have some older receivers (rifles, actually) I'm sure I can use it with, but am wondering about its use on a post 2013 receiver. I'm not aware of the military using 16" 9mm ARs, and the newer lower receiver is not marked Colt or Bushmaster (evil, evil, names in themselves).

If you happen to know the rules or laws that govern this, please post them.

Thanks in advance!

outrider58 · Dec 6, 2017

Yup, as long as any 5.56/.223 upper you switch to is an approved Md legal Hbar. The 9mm is no problem either way.

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Dec 6, 2017

I recently purchased a Colt 9mm carbine at the Frederick gun show and it has the skinny barrel. The box has on the label "2013 Config*"...not sure what that means but the dealer stated it was Maryland legal and it was cash and carry.

MG-70 · Dec 6, 2017

TheOriginalMexicanBob said:
I recently purchased a Colt 9mm carbine at the Frederick gun show and it has the skinny barrel. The box has on the label "2013 Config*"...not sure what that means but the dealer stated it was Maryland legal and it was cash and carry.

Sweet rifle! 16" barrel, with receiver block held by roll pins, fixed front sight, flat top, plastic handguards? Mind saying approx. how much you paid?

I figure, with the price of regular lowers having come down, one can get a decent mag block and regular lower for the price of a dedicated lower; AND it's a lot more versatile, in case you want to use it with some other upper in the future.

Thanks for the surprisingly quick replies!

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Dec 6, 2017

I paid a bit over $1200 for it after negotiating with the vendor. Other make 9mm carbines are less expensive but I wanted the Colt...don't see their 9mm carbines often...especially here in occupied territory. It came with one magazine...am going to the gun show in Harrisburg this weekend and will bellowing for genuine Colt 32-round mags there.

I haven't fired it yet...I'm looking to compare it to my Olympic Arms AR-carbine in .45ACP.

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Dec 6, 2017

Here's the Colt 9mm and the OlyArms .45 together...each with a Burris red dot sight mounted...

MG-70 · Dec 6, 2017

TheOriginalMexicanBob said:
I paid a bit over $1200 for it after negotiating with the vendor. Other make 9mm carbines are less expensive but I wanted the Colt...don't see their 9mm carbines often...especially here in occupied territory. It came with one magazine...am going to the gun show in Harrisburg this weekend and will bellowing for genuine Colt 32-round mags there.

I haven't fire it yet...I'm looking to compare it to my Olympic Arms AR-carbine in .45ACP.

That's a good price! About what I stupidly sold my Uzi B a few years back for. Yeh, I'd buy 2-3 Colt marked mags; you should've had the seller ship them to a friend of yours in a free state.

Congratulations on the purchase, and thanks to all for the replies!

MG-70 · Dec 6, 2017

They look perfect! That's more or how I'd set them up. I'm digging that old A1 Oly upper and lower with older stamp (even though I like the lion).

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Dec 6, 2017

I've had that since the early 1990s. I was a federal officer and at the time had my own FFL. I called Olympic Arms and they built that for me. While I'm a Colt guy, collector and love the .45 ACP no one but OlyArms would build an AR in any pistol caliber other than 9mm. It's not up to Colt standards of fit and finish but it has never as much as hiccuped when shooting it and is insanely accurate out to fifty yards which is the most I've fired it at.

When OlyArms was being sold early this year they were clearing out their inventory...shoulda purchased a 10mm upper at the closeout price but let it go. Coulda, shoulda, woulda. Now the company has new owners and is producing again, the 10mm upper is as expensive as buying entire M4 rifle in 5.56...a bit much to swallow.

MG-70 · Dec 6, 2017

TheOriginalMexicanBob said:
I've had that since the early 1990s. I was a federal officer and at the time had my own FFL. I called Olympic Arms and they built that for me. While I'm a Colt guy, collector and love the .45 ACP no one but OlyArms would build an AR in any pistol caliber other than 9mm. It's not up to Colt standards of fit and finish but it has never as much as hiccuped when shooting it and is insanely accurate out to fifty yards which is the most I've fired it at.

When OlyArms was being sold early this year they were clearing out their inventory...shoulda purchased a 10mm upper at the closeout price but let it go. Coulda, shoulda, woulda. Now the company has new owners and is producing again, the 10mm upper is as expensive as buying entire M4 rifle in 5.56...a bit much to swallow.

I remember those days. IIRC Safari Arms was theirs, and the .45s actually sold too. At least it's good to find out someone bought the business. So, the .45 uses their wire through upper receiver ejector setup?

My first AR was an OA; should've kept it, at least the receiver...who would've known the state would've come to this?

Cheers

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Dec 6, 2017

Yep...it has the wire ejector setup. I never much liked it but it does the job and does the job well. I can't argue with success...as I said...it works.

Olympic Arms at the time did own Safari Arms...I never much liked Safari Arms designs as I never liked finger grooves on handguns. The former owner of OlyArms, before he sold the company, put up for sale his personal collection of Safari Arms handguns...some prototypes and very low serial number pistols...like #1 in at least one case.

Back in those days you could order from Olympic Arms an AR-15 in 5.56 in several different rates of twist to the barrels...including the Eugene Stoner designed 1:14" that had the reputation of instant death early in Vietnam. It only marginally stabilized the 55 grain bullet and caused massive wounds according to early reports by "advisors" who first tested them in Vietnam. When the Army specified a change to 1:12" rate of twist it allegedly reduced the 5.56 round's lethality by something like 40%. The change was due to the rifle suffering unacceptable accuracy in very cold climates which the USAF had many bases.

If some AR making started building and marketing rifles in that early 1:14" rate of twist I can't imagine what the anti-gun media and politicians would say considering its early reputation...it wouldn't be good. Not that the anti-gun people need a reason or know anything about firearms to begin with.

MG-70 · Dec 6, 2017

The ejector setup looks fragile but has worked for them for a long time. I didn't care for the finger separator on the Safari Arms front strap, either, but other then that, the pistols looked cool, if not a bit flashy.

In reference to your very last sentence. If the Antis don't understand the difference between semi-auto and full-auto, and ban guns based on the measurements of the outer diameter of a barrel, or stamps on the side of a receiver, then I'm sure twist rate and projectile weight is way above their level of comprehension, and they'd probably attempt to ban the caliber altogether.

But back to your carbines; they look awesome! I wouldn't mind an A1 9mm setup, much like your .45, but with an Armson OEG, or a small, sturdy, functional, tubular, red dot on a carry handle mount (not goose neck), Israeli sling, and maybe M4 stock.

As for me, if I can find a decent, dedicated, 9mm lower, for a good price, I might go that route as opposed to buying another Hahn ('cause no one likes switching parts between guns

Cheers

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Dec 6, 2017

MG-70 said:
If the Antis don't understand the difference between semi-auto and full-auto, and ban guns based on the measurements of the outer diameter of a barrel, or stamps on the side of a receiver, then I'm sure twist rate and projectile weight is way above their level of comprehension, and they'd probably attempt to ban the caliber altogether.

They tried that a couple of years ago when the BATFE tried to ban the green tip 5.56 because it has the steel penetrator which they considered to be armor-piercing and not suitable for sporting purposes...according to them. It was little more than stealth banning by the Obama Administration...plus federal agencies like the BATFE love regulating to justify their jobs.

MG-70 · Dec 6, 2017

I wasn't aware. I'm glad they didn't succeed!

Biggfoot44 · Dec 6, 2017

And the Mil did use 9mm AR pattern guns , albeit not 16in bbls. Most notably USMC FAST teams ( something about Fleet Anti Terrorist Security , don't remember exactly how they worked the acronym).

The story at the time was they really would have liked to have had MP-5's like the Cool Kids , but Colt 635 was 1/3 the cost of the H&K, and fit their budget better.

And in the same era , the DEA issued buzz guns to their SAs in much greater numbers than the FBI did. ( Quasi- rank& file vs elite teams ). And in those quantities Colt 635 fit their budget better than the H&K.

Trivia - Back in the day at my gun club , once watched a DEA Agent practicing with his 635 on his own time .

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Dec 6, 2017

The H&K MP5 is a better submachine gun than the Colt smg...but besides costs most everyone is familiar with the M16 and M4 and its handling and controls. Training is far easier with what the soldiers, Marines and federal agents are already so familiar with.

When I trained as a submachine gun instructor we used both the MP5 and the Colt...bother excellent and we never had issues with either. We had to induce malfunctions to practice clearing drills. Any agency using either is well served.

rfawcs · Dec 6, 2017

I use a VM Hy Tech mag block in mine that uses Uzi mags, with a DPMS lower and a RRA 16-inch upper. Uzi mags were dirt cheap then so that's why I went with that set-up.

MG-70 · Dec 8, 2017

Thanks again for the feedback!

I'm still undecided on whether to buy a dedicated 9mm lower receiver. I assume that for a stripped or complete lower there's the usual 7 day wait? Are there restrictions on how the lower is marked? Right now due to aesthetics I'm favoring the CMMG lower.

Thanks in advance!

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Dec 8, 2017

Many modular long guns are being marked as multi-caliber now so it probably (I say that advisedly) doesn't matter. It's the upper that makes a difference...it must be a heavy barrel for Maryland compliance if a rifle caliber. I don't know this for a fact, but a pistol caliber AR must not have to be a heavy barrel configuration...you need to check the law on that. My 9mm Colt has the skinny barrel is it was ok and the box is marked "2013 config". I do know AR pattern rifles that are rimfire are ok...completely Maryland legal.

I'm also guessing the answers to which is Maryland compliant may depend on who at the MSP you talk to...you might get different answers so frame any questions accurately to get accurate advice. Even gun store owners will call MSP for the answer if they're not sure...and they certainly don't want to put in a legal trick bag.

Rab1515 · Dec 8, 2017

TheOriginalMexicanBob said:
Many modular long guns are being marked as multi-caliber now so it probably (I say that advisedly) doesn't matter. It's the upper that makes a difference...it must be a heavy barrel for Maryland compliance if a rifle caliber. I don't know this for a fact, but a pistol caliber AR must not have to be a heavy barrel configuration...you need to check the law on that. My 9mm Colt has the skinny barrel is it was ok and the box is marked "2013 config". I do know AR pattern rifles that are rimfire are ok...completely Maryland legal.

I'm also guessing the answers to which is Maryland compliant may depend on who at the MSP you talk to...you might get different answers so frame any questions accurately to get accurate advice. Even gun store owners will call MSP for the answer if they're not sure...and they certainly don't want to put in a legal trick bag.

You only need a HBAR/heavy barrel for a .223/5.56 AR rifle. So AR pistols or any other caliber does not require a hbar.

9mm 16" AR upper on newer receiver

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