Go Back   Maryland Shooters > The Arsenal > Handguns
Don't Have An Account? Register Here

Join MD Shooters

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old April 21st, 2016, 10:14 PM #11
Melnic's Avatar
Melnic Melnic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: HoCo
Posts: 6,594
Melnic Melnic is offline
Senior Member
Melnic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: HoCo
Posts: 6,594
I'm sensing DeJaVu
Melnic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2016, 10:16 PM #12
knastera's Avatar
knastera knastera is offline
Just another shooter
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Baltimore County
Posts: 1,237
knastera knastera is offline
Just another shooter
knastera's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Baltimore County
Posts: 1,237
Stolen guns and liability

Quote:
Originally Posted by CruncherBlock View Post
Thanks Andrew for clarifying.


No problem. In all seriousness, HQL instructors are not lawyers. Many of us get our certifications my merit of the fact that we are NRA pistol instructors. The NRA specifically forbids us from giving legal advice or addressing the laws of a state because even the best written laws are subject to interpretation, particularly in the People's Republic of Maryland. The MDSP gives us a list of what must be covered from a legal standpoint. Those of us who are relatively intelligent do not go beyond that because we are simply not experts in that very complicated field.
__________________
Andrew G. Knaster, Ed.S., MSIS, MABS
Recipient of Grace
Army Veteran
NRA Life Member
NRA Pistol and Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor
ATF Curio and Relic Licensed
MD HQL and Wear & Carry Instructor
Perpetual Prepper
Committed Libertarian
knastera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2016, 11:00 PM #13
Mark75H's Avatar
Mark75H Mark75H is offline
Outboard boat racing guy
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Outside the Gates
Posts: 10,337
Send a message via AIM to Mark75H
Mark75H Mark75H is offline
Outboard boat racing guy
Mark75H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Outside the Gates
Posts: 10,337
Send a message via AIM to Mark75H
Quote:
Originally Posted by knastera View Post
No problem. In all seriousness, HQL instructors are not lawyers. Many of us get our certifications my merit of the fact that we are NRA pistol instructors. The NRA specifically forbids us from giving legal advice or addressing the laws of a state because even the best written laws are subject to interpretation, particularly in the People's Republic of Maryland. The MDSP gives us a list of what must be covered from a legal standpoint. Those of us who are relatively intelligent do not go beyond that because we are simply not experts in that very complicated field.
Well said: "Just the facts, ma'am"
__________________
2A ... Federal Preemption

Thus, the only inquiry that this Court should conduct is to determine whether the firearms prohibited by the Act are protected by the Second Amendment. Because they are, the Act is simply unconstitutional.
Mark75H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2016, 06:19 AM #14
boundlessdyad's Avatar
boundlessdyad boundlessdyad is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: HoCo
Posts: 17,102
boundlessdyad boundlessdyad is offline
boundlessdyad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: HoCo
Posts: 17,102
Quote:
Originally Posted by CruncherBlock View Post
During my HQL training our instructor gave a scenario where a gun owner who's guns are stolen could be liable if they were not locked up in a safe. I don't know if he is correct or not. I began to really think about that and it occurred to me that a way around any liability is to build ghost guns. You don't register ghost guns, right? So if they are stolen, you are SOL on the parts costs and labor, but not millions in a lawsuit.
No offense OP but when new members start threads like this it raises red flags. Which member of the GA or AG's office are you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matlack View Post
Not this again.
Yep, this again.
boundlessdyad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2016, 08:13 AM #15
Hawkeye's Avatar
Hawkeye Hawkeye is offline
The Leatherstocking
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,423
Hawkeye Hawkeye is offline
The Leatherstocking
Hawkeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by CruncherBlock View Post
During my HQL training our instructor gave a scenario
Where did you get your training done? There is one training firm in particular that we have noticed a trend of their students saying almost exactly what you are saying now. This firm has given out factually incorrect information to students in the past, and at present it looks like they're using scare tactics about stuff like gun storage.

Quote:
where a gun owner who's guns are stolen could be liable if they were not locked up in a safe. I don't know if he is correct or not. I began to really think about that and it occurred to me that a way around any liability is to build ghost guns. You don't register ghost guns, right? So if they are stolen, you are SOL on the parts costs and labor, but not millions in a lawsuit.
As was explained above, civil liability is civil liability, and you could be sued by his family if you built Fort Knox in your basement, and then Johnny Goodboy broke in to it and stole a gun and killed himself with it.

As far as CRIMINAL liability goes, the only statute governing storage in MD says that you must store guns so that an unsupervised child can not have access to them.

Here is the actual MD code on the subject:

Quote:
4-104. Child's access to firearms.

(a) Definitions.-

(1) In this section the following words have the meanings indicated.

(2) "Ammunition" means a cartridge, shell, or other device containing explosive or incendiary material designed and intended for use in a firearm.

(3) "Child" means an individual under the age of 16 years.

(4) (i) "Firearm" means a handgun, rifle, shotgun, short-barreled rifle, or short-barreled shotgun, as those terms are defined in 4-201 of this title, or any other firearm.

(ii) "Firearm" does not include an antique firearm as defined in 4-201 of this title.

(b) Exceptions.- This section does not apply if:

(1) the child's access to a firearm is supervised by an individual at least 18 years old;

(2) the child's access to a firearm was obtained as a result of an unlawful entry;

(3) the firearm is in the possession or control of a law enforcement officer while the officer is engaged in official duties; or

(4) the child has a certificate of firearm and hunter safety issued under 10-301.1 of the Natural Resources Article.

(c) Prohibited.- A person may not store or leave a loaded firearm in a location where the person knew or should have known that an unsupervised child would gain access to the firearm.

(d) Penalty.- A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to a fine not exceeding $1,000.

(e) Effect of violation.-


(1) A violation of this section may not:

(i) be considered evidence of negligence;

(ii) be considered evidence of contributory negligence;

(iii) limit liability of a party or an insurer; or

(iv) diminish recovery for damages arising out of the ownership, maintenance, or operation of a firearm or ammunition.

(2) A party, witness, or lawyer may not refer to a violation of this section during a trial of a civil action that involves property damage, personal injury, or death.
Also, please understand that it gives some people the heebie jeebies when a newer user comes on the forums and starts asking questions about "ghost guns," which is a loaded term. We prefer to refer to them as "80%" guns, or by other terms. "Ghost Gun" is a term invented by the media to make them sound scary and evil.
Hawkeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2016, 09:12 AM #16
Brown016 Brown016 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 120
Brown016 Brown016 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by boundlessdyad View Post
No offense OP but when new members start threads like this it raises red flags. Which member of the GA or AG's office are you?

Yep, this again.
Sounding pretty paranoid with "red flags". It seems like a reasonable question when you consider what is being said at the training and, who better to confirm with than a bunch of dudes that love their guns and follow the issues surrounding them. If you don't know, you ask questions. That's how we learn.

A guy said similar things at my HQL training. Essentially the same thing information was relayed and the issue of civil liability was stressed..."take pics of your storage device installed along with a date stamp in case anybody tries saying your firearms were not properly stored", etc. I found it to be a helpful reminder that some people suck and will try and get you regardless of your best efforts/actions.
Brown016 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2016, 09:20 AM #17
PapiBarcelona PapiBarcelona is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,514
Images: 2
PapiBarcelona PapiBarcelona is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,514
Images: 2
Don't forget if you own a pickup truck, the only way to go to the range is to tow a trailer with your safe strapped down on it.
PapiBarcelona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2016, 09:34 AM #18
rseymorejr's Avatar
rseymorejr rseymorejr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Harford County
Posts: 13,153
rseymorejr rseymorejr is offline
Senior Member
rseymorejr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Harford County
Posts: 13,153
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapiBarcelona View Post
Don't forget if you own a pickup truck, the only way to go to the range is to tow a trailer with your safe strapped down on it.
And don't stop for gas anywhere.
__________________
Endowment Member- NRA
Member-Mount Washington Rod & Gun Club
Member- Maryland Shall Issue
ROLL TIDE!!
rseymorejr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2016, 09:52 AM #19
Hawkeye's Avatar
Hawkeye Hawkeye is offline
The Leatherstocking
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,423
Hawkeye Hawkeye is offline
The Leatherstocking
Hawkeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown016 View Post
Sounding pretty paranoid with "red flags". It seems like a reasonable question when you consider what is being said at the training and, who better to confirm with than a bunch of dudes that love their guns and follow the issues surrounding them. If you don't know, you ask questions. That's how we learn.
I don't mean this in a mean or denigrating way, but there are a lot of people here who forget that sometimes. I was raised around guns. I started shooting a BB gun when I was 7 or 8 years old, and a .22 when I was ten. We used to shoot trap and skeet in the back yard of our house. Literally. A lot of other people here were either raised that way or have been around and into guns long enough that it's easy to forget a time when you didn't know what you know now.

Combine that with the general atmosphere in Maryland around guns, as well as the fact that it has actually happened in the past that things which are discussed on these forums end up in the public sphere (witness the statements about "the word on the street" during the hearings on the HRPB members recently) and you end up with people who sometimes jump to conclusions that anyone who is new that asks a question is some sort of plant from the anti gun folks.

I think it's important that we be conscious of the fact that what is said here is public, but I also think that we do ourselves and our community a disservice when we immediately assume that anyone asking what even might be considered a "provocative" question is some kind of spy. It turns people off to the community, and that's bad for all of us.
Hawkeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2016, 09:55 AM #20
protegeV's Avatar
protegeV protegeV is offline
I nose nothing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: TX
Posts: 37,590
protegeV protegeV is offline
I nose nothing
protegeV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: TX
Posts: 37,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matlack View Post
Not this again.
__________________
Murica
protegeV is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Home Page > Forum List > The Arsenal > Handguns


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
2018, Congregate Media, LP Privacy Policy Terms of Service