Remington 870 Questions

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  • jtkendall

    Member
    Jul 13, 2018
    22
    Maryland
    I am currently looking for a shotgun for shooting clays and duck hunting. I like the look of Remington shotguns and recall people raving about them several years ago on r/guns over on Reddit about their general quality and performance. After spending some time back there over the last two weeks I’ve noticed that 870s appear to now be a joke to many of those people. So I have a couple of questions I’m hoping I can get answers to.

    1. Are newer 870s poorer quality than older models? Most of the negative comments I’ve seen referencing this have come up in home defense topics where AR-15s are overwhelmingly suggested over anything else.

    2. Are the Express models as good as the regular models? I’ve read that they are cheaper or budget friendly options, but nothing about performance between the two.

    I’m currently stuck between the Wingmaster and the Express Super Magnum Waterfowl Camo. The Wingmaster comes in 12, 20, and 28 gauge as well as .410, the Express only comes in 12 gauge. Wingmaster is 2-3/4” and 3” shells only, where the Express also supports 3-1/2” shells. I’m fairly set on 12 gauge and I don’t believe I will be using 3-1/2” shells so that’s not really playing a role in my decision.

    The Wingmaster is a couple hundred dollars more expensive. I know spending more upfront is often recommended because you get what you pay for, but I don’t expect this to be the only shotgun I buy. If the Express is of decent quality, reliability, and performance it would make more sense to buy it and put the savings towards a different purchase.
     

    Boondock Saint

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 11, 2008
    24,365
    White Marsh
    I am currently looking for a shotgun for shooting clays and duck hunting. I like the look of Remington shotguns and recall people raving about them several years ago on r/guns over on Reddit about their general quality and performance. After spending some time back there over the last two weeks I’ve noticed that 870s appear to now be a joke to many of those people. So I have a couple of questions I’m hoping I can get answers to.

    1. Are newer 870s poorer quality than older models? Most of the negative comments I’ve seen referencing this have come up in home defense topics where AR-15s are overwhelmingly suggested over anything else.

    2. Are the Express models as good as the regular models? I’ve read that they are cheaper or budget friendly options, but nothing about performance between the two.

    I’m currently stuck between the Wingmaster and the Express Super Magnum Waterfowl Camo. The Wingmaster comes in 12, 20, and 28 gauge as well as .410, the Express only comes in 12 gauge. Wingmaster is 2-3/4” and 3” shells only, where the Express also supports 3-1/2” shells. I’m fairly set on 12 gauge and I don’t believe I will be using 3-1/2” shells so that’s not really playing a role in my decision.

    The Wingmaster is a couple hundred dollars more expensive. I know spending more upfront is often recommended because you get what you pay for, but I don’t expect this to be the only shotgun I buy. If the Express is of decent quality, reliability, and performance it would make more sense to buy it and put the savings towards a different purchase.

    Welcome to the madness. What follows is my opinion, not necessarily fact. Take it with the appropriate grains of salt.

    1. Yes. Quality is relative in this instance, though. A pump gun is the most reliable of shotguns, and a decent one ( read: a new 870) isn't going to do you wrong over the course of its life with you. It will have thousands of shells left in it by the time you stop using it, sell/trade it, etc.

    2. See above. You get what you pay for, mostly.

    Older firearms tend to have a fit and finish about them that modern replications lack. A Wingmaster from the 70s that was properly maintained is going to impress you much more than its newer brother made in this century.

    You won't want to use 3.5" shells for anything, perhaps aside from waterfowl hunting. It's nice to have the option, but you're not likely to miss it.

    If you're going to be a "one and done" firearm owner, hold out for an older, higher quality piece. If you're collecting tools, you can get by with less fancy options for certain purposes. Function over form, forever.

    Welcome again. Good luck.
     
    Last edited:

    AlBeight

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 30, 2017
    4,371
    Hampstead
    You can never go wrong with an 870 Express. Don’t let anyone shame you into spending more if you don’t want. In 25 years with mine I’ve shot hundreds of game animals - ducks, geese, squirrels, rabbits, quail, woodcocks, doves, & turkeys. With the cantilevered rifled deer barrel added on, dozens of deer too. Back in the day, a few clays too. Truth be told a long time ago I used to outshoot just about everyone at my old club’s Wednesday night trap shoots too, except for a handful of guys. Many of those I beat were using $15k trap guns, me with my $200 WalMart 870 Express. This shottie is more than capable of doing anything you want it to do.

    Years have gone by and I now leave my Express set up full time as a deer slug gun. I now have a dedicated turkey gun, 2 dedicated waterfowl guns, 3 dedicated home defense guns, one just for upland game, and one for 3-gun (that I still have not started shooting). If push came to shove, I’d sell/trade all of them and just keep the 870. It’s never let me down. Good luck with your choice.
     

    willtill

    The Dude Abides
    MDS Supporter
    May 15, 2007
    24,312

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,663
    Not Far Enough from the City
    Like with many things, there's where we were yesterday, and where we are nowadays. There's also good, and there's arguably plenty good enough.

    The Remington 870 was introduced in 1950. By 1964, the previously market leading and the outstanding Winchester Model 12 could no longer be made at a price to compete with the upstart Remington 870. The Winchester Model 12 was thus discontinued. The 870 IMO is not of Winchester Model 12 quality, as the machining and engineering of that Winchester shotgun is truly notable. But times had changed, and the 870 was a very good shotgun in it's own right. It was deemed to be priced right, and plenty "good enough". Many folks agreed, to the tune of over 10 million copies sold to date.

    In 1960, Mossberg introduced the Model 500. Deja vu one might suggest, because the 500 was likewise not of Remington 870 quality IMO. But it had a price point advantage, and some other desirable design features like a tang mounted safety that many like, as well as mil spec credentials that they tout. And it was and is IMO a decent shotgun in it's own right. It sold like crazy. It was likewise deemed by many to be "good enough."

    In 1987, Remington introduced the Remington Express. They did that largely to more effectively compete with the 500 and others on the lower price point. Gone on the Express was the walnut stock, replaced by hardwood or synthetic, and the polished blue and the fit and finish detail of the Wingmaster. BUT, many will argue that in the overall, the Express is likewise still plenty "good enough."

    Ultimately, much of the firearms industry has followed this same trend, either in whole or in part. But that's a good topic for another thread. It's still your money, and still your call regarding what's good, and what's good enough.

    Good Luck!
     

    dist1646

    Ultimate Member
    May 1, 2012
    8,758
    Eldersburg
    Having owned both new and old 870's, the older guns are far and away better in almost every respect. The difference in quality of manufacture, fit & finish of the old model 870 is so much better that I got rid of the new ones. Plastic trigger group housings and even replacing the ball detent system of the old magazine cap with cheap plastic are both negatives in my book. The roughness of the newer "Express" versions isn't in the same league with older models. You can find used 870's for about what a new "Express" model costs if you look. You just can't go wrong with the quality of an older 870. Take a look at LEO turn in's too as most are excellent guns and are available at reasonable prices. You can always swap the barrel out for what ever use you like, just be aware that there is a difference in the system used to secure the barrel. ( old models use a ball detent and magazine cap, new models use a cheap plastic piece in the end of the mag tube and a different style of magazine cap that I believe is just a cast part.)
     

    jtkendall

    Member
    Jul 13, 2018
    22
    Maryland
    Thanks for the information everyone. :) I wanted to respond earlier but my internet was out and while browsing on the phone is easy I didn't want to try and type out a response on it.

    If you're going to be a "one and done" firearm owner, hold out for an older, higher quality piece. If you're collecting tools, you can get by with less fancy options for certain purposes. Function over form, forever.

    Welcome again. Good luck.

    Thanks, that’s exactly what I’m thinking. If I was looking for just one shotgun to own forever I’d probably look into older models and probably look into different brands as well. The Express is likely the way I’ll go because it’s inexpensive, easy to find, and leaves me money for shells and a couple of trips shooting clays.

    You can never go wrong with an 870 Express. Don’t let anyone shame you into spending more if you don’t want. In 25 years with mine I’ve shot hundreds of game animals - ducks, geese, squirrels, rabbits, quail, woodcocks, doves, & turkeys. With the cantilevered rifled deer barrel added on, dozens of deer too. Back in the day, a few clays too. Truth be told a long time ago I used to outshoot just about everyone at my old club’s Wednesday night trap shoots too, except for a handful of guys. Many of those I beat were using $15k trap guns, me with my $200 WalMart 870 Express. This shottie is more than capable of doing anything you want it to do.

    This is the kind of experience information I was hoping to find. While the Express I buy this year isn’t going to be exactly like the one you own, it at least should be as capable as a new non-Express variant. I hadn’t even considered a deer barrel for it. Since I’m going into this knowing I may purchase additional shotguns in the future it’s good to know that it’s very capable of doing well at multiple tasks. It should be a good shotgun to try different things with before investing in dedicate shotguns for them, if I even find a need for a dedicated one.

    The Rem 870 is a good, basic pump gun. Though now the trigger guard is plastic (instead of metal) from what I remember with my long past Rem 870.

    You can replace the plastic one if you like with a metal one. If you want to upgrade it... here's a good link for info:

    https://www.rem870.com/2012/07/30/10-steps-to-upgrade-your-remington-870-express-to-police-version/

    My current Rem 870 (with plastic trigger guard) never has had any issues.
    .

    Thanks, I’ve bookmarked that link in case I find myself wanting to change it out and it’s good to know that you haven’t had any issues with yours.

    Like with many things, there's where we were yesterday, and where we are nowadays. There's also good, and there's arguably plenty good enough.



    Ultimately, much of the firearms industry has followed this same trend, either in whole or in part. But that's a good topic for another thread. It's still your money, and still your call regarding what's good, and what's good enough.

    Good Luck!

    Thanks, that was very informative. I think good enough is what I’m aiming for out of this first purchase. If it’s good enough to do the things I want it to then it gets me out there doing those things and lets me decide a path for a future upgrade based on the experience gained while using it.

    Having owned both new and old 870's, the older guns are far and away better in almost every respect. The difference in quality of manufacture, fit & finish of the old model 870 is so much better that I got rid of the new ones. Plastic trigger group housings and even replacing the ball detent system of the old magazine cap with cheap plastic are both negatives in my book. The roughness of the newer "Express" versions isn't in the same league with older models. You can find used 870's for about what a new "Express" model costs if you look. You just can't go wrong with the quality of an older 870. Take a look at LEO turn in's too as most are excellent guns and are available at reasonable prices. You can always swap the barrel out for what ever use you like, just be aware that there is a difference in the system used to secure the barrel. ( old models use a ball detent and magazine cap, new models use a cheap plastic piece in the end of the mag tube and a different style of magazine cap that I believe is just a cast part.)

    When I’m ready to buy I’ll have to look around because if I can get an older model for the price of a new Express that would be great. Any idea if it’s difficult to find parts for older models since they’ve changed several things? I’ve bought older tools before and had a hard time finding parts for them, when I have found them the seller has jacked up the price. If I want a rifled barrel for deer for example I’m guessing it will probably cost me more than buying the new one because it’s older and a different connection system.
     

    Mack C-85

    R.I.P.
    Jan 22, 2014
    6,522
    Littlestown, PA
    I refer to my 870 Express as my "boat paddle" gun. Don't get me wrong, I love it and have broken many a clay and killed many a goose with it. IF you want a utilitarian shotgun, that will most likely never let you down, that you won't worry about dinging carrying it hunting, or that it's gotten muddy in the blind, or will get you and the boat home in a pinch (oh yea, that boat paddle thing) go for it!!! It'll never win any beauty contests, unlike it's Wingmaster brethren (and yes, my Dad has a one that is drop dead gorgeous), but for a working gun, it's hard to beat.
     

    jtkendall

    Member
    Jul 13, 2018
    22
    Maryland
    I refer to my 870 Express as my "boat paddle" gun. Don't get me wrong, I love it and have broken many a clay and killed many a goose with it. IF you want a utilitarian shotgun, that will most likely never let you down, that you won't worry about dinging carrying it hunting, or that it's gotten muddy in the blind, or will get you and the boat home in a pinch (oh yea, that boat paddle thing) go for it!!! It'll ever win any beauty contests, unlike it's Wingmaster brethren (and yes, my Dad has a one that is drop dead gorgeous), but for a working gun, it's hard to beat.

    That's exactly what I want, something that will do the job it's asked to. I'd be beating myself up if I dinged a nice Wingmaster because I'd see it every time. With the camo on the Express I'm looking at it would be more difficult to notice any dings and wouldn't bother me because it's going to be outside in probably less than ideal weather conditions.
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    I bougt an 870 about 38 yrs ago at BEST i think it was for goose hunting. Shot about 1 box of shells through it and it has sat in the back of the safe. It is a very nice looking shotgun albeit a fixed choke. About 25 years ago came into possession of a delaware state police 870 with a folding stock and 8 rd tube. Shot a box of target loads through it recently and it functioned fine. NOt much to look at. THe new ones have done some things to save costs, and i suppose that in 25 yrs if you compare a new one to an 870 bought new in 2018 you might say they same thing. 2 things i do before i buy a gun i am not familiaer with (unless it is a collectable): i read Gun Tests and see what they say. And i read all the professional reviews i can find. Gun tests is not sponsored or paid for by the manuf. and, if you can find one, ask a dealer for an honest opinion as they often have to deal with returns and unhappy customers whose new 600$ shotgun does not work. I suspect when u do your homework u will find that remington and mossberg have withstood the test of time. When i stopped hunting i was using a butt ugly beretta xtrema for geese and a browing o/u 20 ga for birds, but shucking the pump is fun.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    The Wingmaster didn't go away , it's still being made today , albeit with msrp of about $850 .

    When first introduced the Express was considered a submodel , but during the '90s the sales figures gradually crossed to where the Express became the " regular, normal " 870 .

    But old fart that I am , I'm not a Wingmaster Purist . This is the 2110's , and synthetic trigger gaurds are now routine . The Express is " plenty good enough " , and same could be said of another half dozen choices .
     

    byf43

    SCSC Life/NRA Patron Life
    Remington 870.
    I LOVE this platform.
    Maybe that's why (at last count), I have SEVEN of them.

    I've owned Mossberg(s) and won't own another.
    I've won two in raffles, and turned around and sold them off.

    From a 1982 Wingmaster (w/ 20" cyl choke) and 2-3/4" chamber (bought used for $210 OTD) to the 1988 Wingmaster (w/26" Remchoke barrel) that my wife gave me, to several "Express Magnum" 870 w/ both Remchoke barrel(s) to fully rifled slug barrels, to an 870 "SuperMag" w/ 3-1/2" chamber.

    The 870 "just fits" me. I shoulder this magnificent shotgun, and feels GOOD in my hands. (Just like my beloved Remington 1100 shotguns.)

    Parts are plentiful. Older shotguns are too.

    My '82 Wingmaster was a "Pre-Police" designated 870.
    A call to Remington confirmed how it left their factory and was sold as a "police" shotgun.
    It looked like it had never been fired, when I bought it. Not one 'mark' on the underside of the "Carrier" (some call this the 'shell lifter') from being loaded.
    It was a gunshow 'find'.

    If you buy the 870, I don't think you'll be disappointed.
     

    jtkendall

    Member
    Jul 13, 2018
    22
    Maryland
    Thanks again for all of the information everyone, I'm going to pick up the Express and add additional shotguns in the future if I find I need a dedicated one for a specific task. I noticed on my closest stores website that the price has fluctuated a couple of times while considering both so I'm going to wait to see if it goes back down below $500 before buying.
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,663
    Not Far Enough from the City
    Thanks again for all of the information everyone, I'm going to pick up the Express and add additional shotguns in the future if I find I need a dedicated one for a specific task. I noticed on my closest stores website that the price has fluctuated a couple of times while considering both so I'm going to wait to see if it goes back down below $500 before buying.

    Your mention of $500 for the Remington Express took me a bit aback.

    Depending on model, there's of course a wide variety of pricing. I'm a local gun shop buyer whenever I can be, and at a premium when and where reasonable. Service and relationship matter too, and aren't free. But it's never a bad idea when looking for a new firearm to have a feel for comparative pricing. Perhaps you'll see your desired shotgun listed here.

    https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/remington+express+12ga
     

    jtkendall

    Member
    Jul 13, 2018
    22
    Maryland
    Your mention of $500 for the Remington Express took me a bit aback.

    Depending on model, there's of course a wide variety of pricing. I'm a local gun shop buyer whenever I can be, and at a premium when and where reasonable. Service and relationship matter too, and aren't free. But it's never a bad idea when looking for a new firearm to have a feel for comparative pricing. Perhaps you'll see your desired shotgun listed here.

    https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/remington+express+12ga

    It’s this model specifically that’s over $500, I see other ones for lower prices. My store wants $525 making it $575 after taxes and fees.

    That site does list it for cheaper making it $458 total without transfer fee. jr88 also linked to an industry partner that has it for less than my local store but not that low.
     

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