Shipping rifle to out of state gunsmith via his local FFL

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  • Ethan83

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 8, 2009
    3,111
    Baltimoreish
    So long story short, I've been exchanging emails with a guy out of state about doing some work on a rifle stock I have, including bedding. He doesn't have an FFL, but says there's an FFL nearby him that he uses when customers want to send their barreled action along with the stock for bedding work.

    The thing is, it sounds like he's telling me that I can just ship the rifle directly to, and receive directly from, his local FFL. Now I know it's legit to do this for gunsmithing work when the gunsmith has the FFL, but I'm scratching my head wondering if this specific circumstance is sketchy. Since he doesn't have an FFL, doesn't his local FFL have to formally transfer the rifle to him on a 4473? And doesn't that then mean that it has to be transferred back to me on a 4473 by an FFL here in MD? Since the FFL I'd be shipping it to isn't doing the actual gunsmithing, (and the actual gunsmith doesn't have an FFL), wouldn't this mean that the 'exception' for not having to complete a 4473 transfer for gunsmithing wouldn't apply here?

    He was specific that I would ship to his FFL, but include a note that the rifle was going to him, and to write his name on the money order for payment. I guess it all sounds relatively legit, up until the point where he said that his local FFL could ship the rifle directly back to me. They're not the gunsmith, so I would think that formal 4473 transfers with NICS check and all would be required on both ends.

    Am I wrong here, or is this sketchy? I hope I'm using the terminology correctly.

    Sounds like I should be finding a MD FFL that will handle the transfer and shipping, and just bite the bullet on the extra time/hassle/expense. Or am I overthinking this, and good-to-go with the arrangement this guy is describing?
     

    AlanInSilverSpring

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Apr 25, 2017
    1,645
    I'm not well versed in the law but logically that sounds like a pretty sketchy deal. Kind of like a making a straw purchase for a firearm. I'd be damn sure I wasn't skirting the law before doing that deal.
     

    OrbitalEllipses

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 18, 2013
    4,140
    DPR of MoCo
    Legally you can ship the long gun to the FFL without involving a MD FFL; USPS allows non-licensees to ship firearms except handguns. Return from FFL to you seems sketchy, but some things you just shouldn't talk about in a public space.
     

    Ethan83

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 8, 2009
    3,111
    Baltimoreish
    Legally you can ship the long gun to the FFL without involving a MD FFL; USPS allows non-licensees to ship firearms except handguns. Return from FFL to you seems sketchy, but some things you just shouldn't talk about in a public space.

    If the FFL is doing the smithing, it's totally legit for them to return it to the unlicensed individual. What's weird about this is that the smith is unlicensed, which makes me think that his FFL has to transfer it to him, at which point, the only way to get it transferred back to me is through a MD FFL.
     

    ironpony

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    7,256
    Davidsonville
    I'm going through a similar circumstance. From what I gather you would have to be present for a non-FFL Gunsmith to do the work. Funny thing is that it is on my list to call ATF to see which FFL is best for me (I am getting requests for the same type of work), so I should have some answers soon. Dealer license vs Manufacturers license for a gunsmith allow different operations. In your case I would deal with the FFL only (shipping, estimates, invoices, etc) given that you may not know this gunsmith.
    If you were the gunsmith could you go to a local FFL and walk out with a rifle without any paperwork?
    I am finding the rules are almost as vague and convoluted as MD laws.
     

    GTOGUNNER

    IANAL, PATRIOT PICKET!!
    Patriot Picket
    Dec 16, 2010
    5,493
    Carroll County!
    The Gunsmith should have an FFL... If he doesn't he's not legit.
    The term “dealer” is defined by 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(11) and
    27 CFR 478.11 to include any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at
    wholesale or retail, or repairing firearms or making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or
    trigger mechanisms to firearms.
     

    j_h_smith

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 28, 2007
    28,516
    If this gunsmith doesn't have a facility within the gun store, but he's receiving the gun and taking it to his shop, there's some funny stuff going on. BOTH the FFL and the gunsmith are breaking the law.

    Run away from that situation as fast as you can.
     

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