So what if Hogan wins a Second term?

danb · May 11, 2018

CrazySanMan said:
By voting for who you think can win instead of voting for who you believe is best, you are enabling Maryland to further become a sh!thole. You're the proverbial frog in the pot, and every election the heat is turned up a notch, but you're happy that it's 10 degree increments and not 15...

No. And pretty soon Colorado will be in the same position. You vote for the most conservative candidate who can win because people who vote get an audience, and have their opinions considered, the rest are ignored.

Politicians do nothing but take an average of their constituents views. If you find your representative not 100% on board with your views, you are likely in the minority and need to persuade other people, not protest vote or sit home and fold your arms.

People here complain a lot, but need to get into Baltimore and MoCo and change hearts and minds, not do stupid things like vote for Shawn of the Dead.

Schipperke · May 11, 2018

Jim12 said:
Better than for Republicans in CA, NY, NJ, MA, and a handful of others.

And, when Republicans go "overboard" to prove a point like they did in the AL Senate race and others, they end up with Democrats who are worse.

How's that working out for ANY of them? Move to NY or NJ and report back to us.

Is it really that difficult to understand?

Christine O'Donnel lost by 17 points , where Castle was polling to take the seat back. Everyone bemoaning Hogan has forgotten all the yes votes from R delegates the first round. They changed because they win by very few votes and very motivated voters. It is why O'Donnel won the primary, not many vote in them, but they do in the general...

Jim12 · May 11, 2018

CrazySanMan said:
"Maryland sucks and we get more repressed every year but hey, at least we aren't California!"

What kind of argument is that?

I lived in Colorado briefly -- too briefly --in the early '80's, when it was a free state compared to now. You could be talking that way about Colorado soon.

44man · May 11, 2018

danb said:
No. And pretty soon Colorado will be in the same position. You vote for the most conservative candidate who can win because people who vote get an audience, and have their opinions considered, the rest are ignored.

Politicians do nothing but take an average of their constituents views. If you find your representative not 100% on board with your views, you are likely in the minority and need to persuade other people, not protest vote or sit home and fold your arms.

People here complain a lot, but need to get into Baltimore and MoCo and change hearts and minds, not do stupid things like vote for Shawn of the Dead.

Well I donated a good chunk to hogan and voted for him, after 2 emails asking about the 2a no more response, what , I call that being ignored.

That’s weird, and now that he’s outed himself as a gun grabbing anti folks say vote for him?

Nah

danb · May 11, 2018

44man said:
Well I donated a good chunk to hogan and voted for him, after 2 emails asking about the 2a no more response, what , I call that being ignored.

That’s weird, and now that he’s outed himself as a gun grabbing anti folks say vote for him?

Nah

Then maybe consider the possibility you are in the minority even among republicans in MD.

After all, that great defender of the 2nd amendment told us it was ok to ban bump stocks and "get the guns first, go to court later." See also: Chris Cox and Wayne LaPierre.

CrazySanMan · May 11, 2018

danb said:
No. And pretty soon Colorado will be in the same position. You vote for the most conservative candidate who can win because people who vote get an audience, and have their opinions considered, the rest are ignored.

Politicians do nothing but take an average of their constituents views. If you find your representative not 100% on board with your views, you are likely in the minority and need to persuade other people, not protest vote or sit home and fold your arms.

People here complain a lot, but need to get into Baltimore and MoCo and change hearts and minds, not do stupid things like vote for Shawn of the Dead.

Jim12 said:
I lived in Colorado briefly -- too briefly --in the early '80's, when it was a free state compared to now. You could be talking that way about Colorado soon.

Colorado has 1,003,000 registered democrats (31.7%), 995,000 registered republicans (31.4%), and 1,164,000 registered independents (36.8%).

Maryland is 55% democrat, 31% republican, and 14% other.

In Maryland the republican and independent votes combined still lose out to the dems.

Colorado is about as balanced as you can get while Maryland and Massachusetts are the most lopsided states in the nation. Colorado is not going the way of Maryland any time soon.

ToolAA · May 11, 2018

inkd said:
It's not an easy decision and it's not a decision I came to easily. Doing something that you know is going to be painful in hopes that it will pay dividends down the line is not an easy thing to do.

Voting for Hogan is not the logical response. It's the easiest response.

Let me ask you a question. All those Evangelical voters who voted for Trump because they thought that the alternative was worse. I can't, and won't fault them for that either. Trump was, mostly, an unknown commodity.

But, do you think they would they vote for him again if he removed whatever Constitutional rights they were guaranteed, regarding their religion?

At the end of the day I think that our reasons for voting for/against or not voting for Hogan (or any candidate) should be difficult and contemplated deeply. If more voters approached voting in this manner we might have a more responsible electorate.

I wont criticize you for what I believe is one of our most fundamental rights. The right to vote.

Regarding your last question, I think that most Evangelicals did see Trumps true colors. I’m not an evangelical person but I could easily see from his history that he was not my ideal candidate. I think I even posted as such. At the end of the day my reason for supporting him was that I was voting for a conservative appointment to SCOTUS. That was my personal calculus then and I will apply a similar calculus in the 2018 MD gubernatorial election.

God help us either way.

Jim12 · May 11, 2018

CrazySanMan said:
Colorado has 1,003,000 registered democrats (31.7%), 995,000 registered republicans (31.4%), and 1,164,000 registered independents (36.8%).

Maryland is 55% democrat, 31% republican, and 14% other.

In Maryland the republican and independent votes combined still lose out to the dems.

Colorado is about as balanced as you can get while Maryland and Massachusetts are the most lopsided states in the nation. Colorado is not going the way of Maryland any time soon.

Depends on your definition of "soon."

There's a discernible pattern of liberals f'ing up once-beautiful free states, then fleeing to escape the shit they've caused, only to reintroduce it to their new environment. Look where people are fleeing from and where they're going. They're bringing their shit with them. It's only a matter of time.

If Colorado were smart, it would build its own wall and institute extreme vetting. :lol:

44man · May 11, 2018

danb said:
Then maybe consider the possibility you are in the minority even among republicans in MD.

After all, that great defender of the 2nd amendment told us it was ok to ban bump stocks and "get the guns first, go to court later." See also: Chris Cox and Wayne LaPierre.

True constitutional and 2a patriots are a minority everywhere, most assuredly here , seeing how so many here want to vote for an anti gun politician who’s proven he believes in gun grabbing before due process and banning of lawfully owned property without even grandfathering.

Let’s all vote our rights away with a known anti, good plan, for those who don’t mind losing their rights

rambling_one · May 11, 2018

As a PG resident, every election I look for an R on the ballot. The picking had been mighty slim.

danb · May 11, 2018

CrazySanMan said:
Colorado has 1,003,000 registered democrats (31.7%), 995,000 registered republicans (31.4%), and 1,164,000 registered independents (36.8%).

Maryland is 55% democrat, 31% republican, and 14% other.

In Maryland the republican and independent votes combined still lose out to the dems.

Colorado is about as balanced as you can get while Maryland and Massachusetts are the most lopsided states in the nation. Colorado is not going the way of Maryland any time soon.

Colorado is getting a lot of California emigrants. It looks like the balance is closer to tipping than I thought. even the republicans in California are to the left of republicans in Colorado. Better tell them not to bring their politics to Colorado, and keep Colorado nice.

CrazySanMan · May 11, 2018

Jim12 said:
Depends on your definition of "soon."

There's a discernible pattern of liberals f'ing up once-beautiful free states, then fleeing to escape the shit they've caused, only to reintroduce it to their new environment. Look where people are fleeing from and where they're going. They're bringing their shit with them. It's only a matter of time.

If Colorado were smart, it would build its own wall and institute extreme vetting.

Yes, liberals are fleeing California and coming to Colorado. But so are conservatives. I'd say the influx of conservatives from liberal states is equal to or higher than the influx of liberals into Colorado. Boulder is an F'd up liberal town and makes a lot of headlines, but they are small beans compared to the rest of the state. Democrats here complain that Hickenlooper is a DINO, and he is more libertarian than anything. He called the >15 round magazine ban and FTF background check laws a mistake and publicly apologized for signing the bill into law. I'm expecting an independent Hickenlooper/Kasich run for the white house in 2020.

Colorado is balanced as far as party affiliation goes and we have the ability to recall elected officials. The governor is a D, the attorney general is an R. The house is a small D majority and the senate is a small R majority. Colorado defeated it's "Coloradocare" universal health care bill last year and our version of 1302 was easily defeated this year. The state is in a political stalemate and will be for a long time to come.

East2West · May 11, 2018

CrazySanMan said:
"Maryland sucks and we get more repressed every year but hey, at least we aren't California!"

What kind of argument is that?

The argument of people who care more about their party holding an office than their rights.

Jim12 · May 11, 2018

44man said:
True constitutional and 2a patriots are a minority everywhere, most assuredly here , seeing how so many here want to vote for an anti gun politician who’s proven he believes in gun grabbing before due process and banning of lawfully owned property without even grandfathering.

Let’s all vote our rights away with a known anti, good plan, for those who don’t mind losing their rights

You'd rather vote for somebody who can't ever win, thereby losing to somebody who says they'll take your guns and will do it, just so you can say you were "pure" with your vote.

I'd like to live in a mansion on a mountain top, but I'm not going to let myself be homeless because I can't achieve my utopian dream.

CrazySanMan · May 11, 2018

Jim12 said:
You'd rather vote for somebody who can't ever win, thereby losing to somebody who says they'll take your guns and will do it, just so you can say you were "pure" with your vote.

I'd like to live in a mansion on a mountain top, but I'm not going to let myself be homeless because I can't achieve my utopian dream.

Voting for the lesser of two evils in Maryland is like living paycheck to paycheck. Each year the taxes go up, you don't get much of a raise, credit card debt increases, and you get a bit worse off than the year before.

Voting on principals is like saving until it hurts each week. Doing without a lot of things and making your life suck a bit now but with a huge payoff when you retire.

Do you want to continue the status quo, and get worse every year, or do you want to feel some pain for a bit but create a better tomorrow?

Boondock Saint · May 11, 2018

It's stunning to me that so many ostensibly pro-2A will eagerly cast a vote for a guy who has signed multiple gun control bills.

This forum is still called Maryland Shooters, right?

fred55 · May 11, 2018

I will not vote for an incumbent that has demonstrated a disregard for the Constitution and Bill of Rights. They have failed their Oath of Office. There are too many incumbents that fall into this category. They need to be replaced with folks that understand, and support, that Oath of Office. (period, drop the mike) Perhaps it's time for the Libertarian or Constitutional parties to replace the failing Democratic and Republican. It won't happen overnight though - just like your waiting for the Repub's in this state to grow some backbone, if ever. Fred55

Jim12 · May 11, 2018

CrazySanMan said:
Voting for the lesser of two evils in Maryland is like living paycheck to paycheck. Each year the taxes go up, you don't get much of a raise, credit card debt increases, and you get a bit worse off than the year before.

Voting on principals is like saving until it hurts each week. Doing without a lot of things and making your life suck a bit now but with a huge payoff when you retire.

Do you want to continue the status quo, and get worse every year, or do you want to feel some pain for a bit but create a better tomorrow?

Silly analogy. There's no "cumulative voting," or "vote savings bank" (except maybe for Dems) and there's no cumulative payoff in the end. The Dems still outnumber the rest of us almost 2:1. :lol:

Not_an_outlaw · May 11, 2018

danb said:
^^ this. The problem here is we cannot prove a negative. Dems did not advance bills because they did not want a popular gov to veto them. Instead, they played games to strip his power, and negotiated on the remainder. With Anthony Brown (or Madaleno or Baker) as gov, the original version of the 1302 and bump stock and HPRB bills would have passed. As would a ban on rifles for 18-20 year olds, and a magazine ban like the one the Baltimore Delegation proposed.

Then you would have something to appeal. By assisting in lowering the burden of these laws, working with the other side, it's hard to make the argument that the bill in unconstitutional when you help write it.

Schipperke · May 11, 2018

Boondock Saint said:
It's stunning to me that so many ostensibly pro-2A will eagerly cast a vote for a guy who has signed multiple gun control bills.

This forum is still called Maryland Shooters, right?

Absolutely, and you may be forgetting the "Maryland" qualifier cited.

So what if Hogan wins a Second term?

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