CETME Model L (.223) in the US

Bertfish · Aug 20, 2015

smdub said:
I've eyeballed the receiver shape for a while (I have one of the kits.) One could make a HK collapsible stock fit as a reasonable facsimile if you made a receiver endcap (and if you can weld the receiver 'flat' then yuo have the skills to weld up an endcap.) I can't remember if the 'leg' width was right but it was close. Then just have to cut a barrel down and rethread. The fore-end appears the same in all 3 variants.

Hmmm I think one of my relatives has a set of regular HK furniture. Of course I'd need a CETME receiver to compare it to

wbw2123 · Aug 20, 2015

Bertfish said:
Hmmm I think one of my relatives has a set of regular HK furniture. Of course I'd need a CETME receiver to compare it to

I have both and will take some pictures in a few days.

Kizmit99 · Aug 20, 2015

I suspect there are probably more differences between the L and LC than simply the stock, because there's a fairly long spring and rod that extend a fair distance into the fixed stock. Also, the tail on the carrier extends about 3 inches past the rear of the receiver when fully back. The LC stock doesn't appear to be have anywhere to 'hide' these bits to the rear of the receiver.

This pic appears to confirm my suspicion:

I suspect the bolt spring fits in the top rail of the carrier on the LC model... Compare the bolt-carrier to the one from an L in this pic:

It would be awesome if some of those kits become available though - I really like the looks of the LC.

erwos · Aug 21, 2015

Gave in and bought an LV parts kit this morning. I'll build it out in a year or two when things get better on the flats and barrels front (and I have more room in the safe). I imagine it'll be cool with a surplus SUSAT or something.

My biggest long-term concern with the flats is that the magazine well not suck like the original CETMEs. They are infamous for being way too tight, and I'd prefer flat builders give me a magwell I can use rather than something that's authentic to the original spec.

smdub · Aug 21, 2015

Kizmit99 said:
I suspect there are probably more differences between the L and LC than simply the stock, because there's a fairly long spring and rod that extend a fair distance into the fixed stock.

Doh! I totally forgot about that. You would have to mod the carrier to use the HKs recoil spring that passes through the top of the carrier. Good catch.

erwos said:
I'd prefer flat builders give me a magwell I can use rather than something that's authentic to the original spec.

You can weld a flat as tight/loose as you like

erwos · Aug 21, 2015

smdub said:
You can weld a flat as tight/loose as you like

That's nice to hear. It really warmed my heart to see that someone earlier in this thread was able to get m3 pmags working by modifying the blocking shelf slightly.

Bertfish · Aug 21, 2015

Kizmit99 said:
I suspect there are probably more differences between the L and LC than simply the stock, because there's a fairly long spring and rod that extend a fair distance into the fixed stock. Also, the tail on the carrier extends about 3 inches past the rear of the receiver when fully back. The LC stock doesn't appear to be have anywhere to 'hide' these bits to the rear of the receiver.

This pic appears to confirm my suspicion:

I suspect the bolt spring fits in the top rail of the carrier on the LC model... Compare the bolt-carrier to the one from an L in this pic:

It would be awesome if some of those kits become available though - I really like the looks of the LC.

Good catch boss. I emailed Apex to see if they were going to import any LC kits. Cross your fingers

Bertfish · Aug 21, 2015

erwos said:
I'll build it out in a year or two when things get better on the flats and barrels front (and I have more room in the safe).

My plan as well. Let it ride for a while

IMBLITZVT · Aug 21, 2015

Bertfish said:
Good catch boss. I emailed Apex to see if they were going to import any LC kits. Cross your fingers

I called and talked to them. Nothing new coming, at least being told to us. It sounded like they did not even know these kits were mixed in. They are still going through the kits... so who knows.

I might be the only one but I will pass on the LC. Never been much of a SBR/folding stock type. Give me the full size version please!

I don't really see the mag well as an issue. I don't view this as a modern gun so much as a collector piece. Part of the gun is crappy mags, I would not want to run Pmags. Might as well skip this and get another AR. It will be cheaper and you can use Pmags. But thats just me...

Any idea where we can find optics like SUSATs? Do they fit the STANAG mounts? Or the Enosa NV scope?

erwos · Aug 21, 2015

IMBLITZVT said:
I don't really see the mag well as an issue. I don't view this as a modern gun so much as a collector piece. Part of the gun is crappy mags, I would not want to run Pmags. Might as well skip this and get another AR. It will be cheaper and you can use Pmags. But thats just me...

I already have like... a million ARs. I don't need or want another. I do like roller-locked rifles (in concept).

Any idea where we can find optics like SUSATs? Do they fit the STANAG mounts? Or the Enosa NV scope?

You find them at Gunbroker, ebay, forums, the usual suspects. The whole STANAG thing is new to me, too - looks like it's a two-screw mounting system. I may settle for getting an ARMS adapter rail and then just using more modern NV. (I like the idea of using NV on a CETME LV build - feels right.)

Bertfish · Aug 21, 2015

IMBLITZVT said:
I called and talked to them. Nothing new coming, at least being told to us. It sounded like they did not even know these kits were mixed in. They are still going through the kits... so who knows.

I just got the same email response. No plans at this time. Darn

erwos said:
You find them at Gunbroker, ebay, forums, the usual suspects. The whole STANAG thing is new to me, too - looks like it's a two-screw mounting system. I may settle for getting an ARMS adapter rail and then just using more modern NV. (I like the idea of using NV on a CETME LV build - feels right.)

IMBLITZVT and I discussed that yesterday. What sort of height would an adapter add?

erwos · Aug 21, 2015

Bertfish said:
IMBLITZVT and I discussed that yesterday. What sort of height would an adapter add?

ARMS #6 adapter would seemingly add pretty much nothing to the height.

IMBLITZVT · Aug 21, 2015

erwos said:
I already have like... a million ARs. I don't need or want another. I do like roller-locked rifles (in concept).

You find them at Gunbroker, ebay, forums, the usual suspects. The whole STANAG thing is new to me, too - looks like it's a two-screw mounting system. I may settle for getting an ARMS adapter rail and then just using more modern NV. (I like the idea of using NV on a CETME LV build - feels right.)

The Roller delay are nice in semi. I found the M16 outperformed the HK33 in a side by side test in FA. Frankly the MP5 is the king of the roller delay guns. (P.S. Roller lock is like the MG42, not to be picky)

I have found airsoft Versions of the SUSAT but very few real ones. I don't think they are STANAG mounted which are two screws. I have three of the Z51 German scopes right now. I plan to sell two but I think that would work well with it. Even Green! http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=500578496

erwos said:
ARMS #6 adapter would seemingly add pretty much nothing to the height.

Yes the adapter does not add much height but then you have to add a second mount. So your have almost 2x the riser that you would normally have. Your chin is not even going to hit the stock!

erwos · Aug 21, 2015

IMBLITZVT said:
Yes the adapter does not add much height but then you have to add a second mount. So your have almost 2x the riser that you would normally have. Your chin is not even going to hit the stock!

Well, depends on what you're using for an optic. A plain-jane scope wouldn't be HORRIBLE, but I could see night vision as being pretty rough... but that would be the case with or without the adapter. STANAG is just a standard to mount stuff on, it doesn't mean your mount is going to be low (ala the old M16 carry handle mounts).

I want to say that the SUIT scopes mount directly to STANAG, but I'm not 100% sure. They're not screwed in, that much I know... I think they do something clever using the front edge of the rail and the holes. Maybe a question for FALFiles.

IMBLITZVT · Aug 21, 2015

erwos said:
I want to say that the SUIT scopes mount directly to STANAG, .

I have a Trilux SUIT for my FAL. Totally different mount. Other than HK claw mounts, few guns in the US use the STANAG mounting system.

I think you are going find that the adapter does had fairly considerable amount of height. Probably another 1" or 1.5" by the time you add another mount to the rail. I could be wrong but don't think I am. Yes its going to be closer to the AR carry handle rail which is super high if you are running a rail at that level and not the direct mounting Colt style scope. Something like this:

erwos · Aug 21, 2015

Are you and I looking at the same adapter? The ARMS #6 a rail with no base or riser. It screws in. It shouldn't be more than a quarter of an inch, if that much. If you want to really go low, you can also get 30mm STANAG rings for an appropriate scope.

IMBLITZVT · Aug 21, 2015

erwos said:
Are you and I looking at the same adapter? The ARMS #6 a rail with no base or riser. It screws in. It shouldn't be more than a quarter of an inch, if that much. If you want to really go low, you can also get 30mm STANAG rings for an appropriate scope.

Yes but I feel like STANAG Mounted scopes already account for a high base and so mount more directly than say riser rings on a standard rail scope. I guess if you get real low rings, it might be about the same...

IMBLITZVT · Aug 21, 2015

Well the kit came in! Looks pretty much like the other kits with a rail on the top of the rear sight. Condition is between the Very good and the Good kits. Barrel slide fit like the others. Stock is nicely matching color to the rest of the kit which is new and makes me happy. Also the mag well is cut further forward. Also this is the first kit with a full bird cage Flash hider. Also see my new measuring stick.

German Z51 NV scope goes pretty well with it!

The CETME Model L Family.

erwos · Aug 25, 2015

So, I did some more research on this. It seems like your quality native STANAG-mount scope options are expensive Hensoldt and Swaro scopes. There's no way I can justify spending $700-$800 on a Z24, so I guess I'll buy some ARMS rings and hunt up a decent quality compact scope (Or I hope I get the deal of a century at a gun show by someone who doesn't know anything about STANAG mounts?)

IMBLITZVT · Aug 25, 2015

erwos said:
So, I did some more research on this. It seems like your quality native STANAG-mount scope options are expensive Hensoldt and Swaro scopes. There's no way I can justify spending $700-$800 on a Z24, so I guess I'll buy some ARMS rings and hunt up a decent quality compact scope (Or I hope I get the deal of a century at a gun show by someone who doesn't know anything about STANAG mounts?)

Those scopes are old school scopes too. They would not really be age appropriate for this firearm IMHO. These rifles are about 20 years newer than the guns those scopes were designed for. These just came out of service a few years ago. I am looking for a modern scope. If I can't get anything I will stick with the NV scope above. Thats was cheaper than those HK scopes.

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